Name specific names.

Plus, what you are describing is not free trade.

It also certainly doesn't sound like the exploitation of other countries that some seem to be crying about here in this thread.

What you are describing sounds like us being on the short end of the stick. Which we are in some cases.

I'm not the name-naming type.


You're getting warmer. It's not free trade. If it were free trade, I wouldn't be bitching.

Even warmer. I think American consumers get the shaft. We get taxed to keep big energy on the grid, then we get fucked when big energy decides it wants to fuck. The customer, the end user, the reason that products are made and services are rendered, are oft the forgotten dupe in the global resource scenario.

Funny, the stick doesn't seem all that short when it's being shoved up our asses.

Ay carumba! Above 72 degrees?

It's currently 68 degrees in my house. Feels damn nice.

I'm in agreement with you here. We don't have a so-called "free trade" agreement with countries like Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's are members of the cartel OPEC and they also fully use the WTO to gain advantages for their own interests.

There were several members here crying that we take advantage of other countries resources. Both you and I know that the Saudi's or any OPEC cartel country for that matter, can never be described in that manner. At least not to any rational individual.

Canada is our best free trade partner. However, there are many right here in our own government actively working to undermine that free trade agreement where energy resources are concerned. Obama and many of his allies are at the forefront of undermining that trade and those energy resources.

I understand what you are saying GrayHam.

Imagine yourself an 80 year old individual living in a cold region of the country in February. Your thermostat is downstairs. At a 72 degree setting, maybe the second floor of your house may not be so toasty. Most heating systems shut off when the room with the thermostat reaches the set temperature.

Would it be anyone's business if you set that thermostat to 74 degrees? Is that any business of the government? Would you still be living in a free society where government had a right or the power to tell you what temperature to keep your home?

California is often the canary in the birdcage.

Some in our society want to take us down that road. It's the road to serfdom.

All in the name of the environment of course.

This brings up Obamas NAFTA snafu. If he pisses off the Canadian's they can very easily sell their oil to China.

McCain is pandering to the global warming pranksters too now.

The Mayan calendar ends 12/21/2012 - a month short of the end of the next presidential term. Coincidence?



Obama would like to take your guns, your money (if you're in the top half of wage earners), your freedom of speech (by further facilitating the notion of political correctness), and who knows what else.

What kind of idiot approves of legislation to allow a criminal breaking into your house to sue you if he gets hurt or if you hurt him? Oh, that's right, Obama.

His wife is a piece of shit too.

it's funny, cause no one here mentions the fact that these resources we are talking about are limited. We can talk about price any day. But what are we doing to make all of these resources last?
lemme see, nothing.
markets work in theory just like communism. But they are usually manipulated by greed by the people who have the power. Such as gas prices. Why has no one mentioned the fact that the oil companies that provide us with gas, have broken done refineries that they are not fixing, which is one of the reason the price is high. Look at them, they are making billions of profit, and they say that is part of the cycle? Whenever price goes up they raise the price immediately, but when it goes down, they do it slowly?

o yea, it's called Economic imperialism. This is why Chavez is in power in Venezuela. American Businesses own a lot of shit down in South American, and we are exploiting their resources.
If you know ur history, that's why Castro is in power, that's why we have Iran the way it is. we are indirectly responsible for the way it is, and now it has come back to bite us in the ass.

Maybe its time to force the oil companies to play ball, and force them to lower prices, as if the prices go down, there will be more money to go somewhere else, which would help the economy.

Wow, thanks for another full of shit post.

It's all greed? Hmmm, if you do your homework, you'll learn that oil companies are working within pretty much the same margins they always have...around 8%. That's consistent with other industries.

The only valid point you make is that it's a finite resource, and we'll never again see cheap gas. That said, don't single out America. The rest of the world is doing far less than we are to conserve.

Why do you think all those cool vehicles in other countries aren't available in the US? If you guessed emissions standards, you'd be right. If all you want to do is post up a big guilt trip to try to make Americans feel bad for all our transgressions, maybe you should look at other, far more populous countries and look at their reliance on oil, their disregard for the environment, and their lack of initiative in doing anything about it.

Much of the world's technology still originates in this country. Talk to me when China, Russia, India, etc. are doing anything to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels and then, and only then, will I start feeling guilty as an American that we're the problem.

Yasha, why do all of your posts spew anti-Americanism, and yet, you still choose to be here? Having an opinion is one thing. Get out of the university world and into the real one so you can star understanding better how things work and the effects of certain forces on others.

I'm not spewing anti-americanism, I am simply stating history. also We are still the country that consumes the most, we consume the most oil in the world, also as you said, other countries are doing less, so that gives us a right to not care? How about leading by example?
The only people that can reduce our dependence on fossil fuels is us. And from this post, all everyone is talking about is economics, price. Not anything about conserving. again, you think what I am saying is full of shit, that's fine. I think the same about your posts.

Just stumbled upon this thread.

Only one thing to add: Yasha...yu are full of anti-american bullshit. I seem to recall certain trip to Crown King where you spewed out some BS about how America is no different from Middle Eastern terroist states?

You're a dumb shit. Like Desert Rat said, get into the real world and then form some REAL viewpoints.

America does try to lead by example. While some of it is misguided, it's typically done with good intentions. Go back and reread my post. Did you miss the part where the US has the most stringent emmissions and anti pollution standards? Did you read the part where it's highly likely the next new development in technology will likely originate here?

When you glorify the shitholes of the world that are polar opposites of what America stands for, I'd say that's anti-American. Wouldn't you?

lemme guess, This country has done terrorist acts. I.e Iran-contra scandal, Nicaragua as an example. That's fine if u think I'm a dumbshit. I don't care.

School has not changed my viewpoints. My view has come from reading news, looking what's around me. and the like. I could care less what everyone thinks. I love this country to death, and just tired of seeing the hypocrisy.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

With the exception of China and India...who is doing "far less" than us?

I would argue EVERY country in Africa and all of southeast Asia and all of the middle east...just because they have neither the industry nor advances that cause us to use more than they do does NOT mean that they "do more" to conserve than we do...If you extrapolated those countries current usage into a country our size and advancement, I bet you would find they use more resources per person than we do...

THIS is why I'm voting for Obama. (mp3 of a podcast.... about 45 minutes on the importance of the separation between church and state and why this is a critical election year for those of us who want to retain many of our freedoms).

Good point spalind.
The United States is by far the leader in efficiency as far as industry and resources are concerned. We HAVE to be efficient to support ourselves and every other POS 3rd world, disaster stricken country in the world.

Yasha, thankfully you are moving to California. You will fit in much better with the majority there. Better yet, move to back to Russia for a year and then come back and we'll se how your view of the U.S. and everything we do to "lead by example" changes.

That is insane. The first freedom Obama will remove is your right to keep and bear arms. Apparently he wants to tell you what to drive, eat, and what to set your AC on as well.

That is the reason I am NOT voting for Obama.

We all have our political hot buttons. My feeling has always been that the 1st amendment (and all others) is ensured by the 2nd amendment. Countries who do not allow lawful citizens to arm themselves, open their country to crime, terrorism, and tyranny.

Whoever is elected, I will always be loyal to this country and will stand by what was set forth over 200 years ago....unless Hillary wins, then Canada might be the place to be. I wonder how the off-roading is up there, eh?

Obama is for freedom. What a fucking joke. What a fucking lie.

Obama IS NOT for freedom. Obama is the most radical left winger in the history of this country to ever run for president. They are anti-freedom.

I see some of the left wingers on board talking about this "leadership by example" bullshit. I've already asked, but not a single one of you has defined exactly what you mean by "leadership by example".

Does it mean the global warming bullshit and passing global warming legislation? That right there is anti-freedom and anti-capitalist in nature. With legislation like that, the price of a gallon of gas will go anywhere from $6 to $8 a gallon. Our electric bills will double in a short period of time. Is that what is meant by "leadership by example"?

Since most Americans need their cars to drive to work, $8 a gallon for gas will not be interpreted as "leadership by example".

Is "leadership by example" sending many more jobs overseas to India and China? Countries that don't give a shit about the global warming fraud and who are actually exempt from fraudulent international global warming treaties.

Is "leadership by example" signing more international treaties that would harm American sovereignty and American interests?

This "leadership by example" is nothing more than a gameplan for weakening this country. Something Obama would do to this country on numerous levels. Too numerous to mention in one post.

Maybe the leftists should take a look at what is going on in Europe. With increasing frequency the people are "throwing the bums" out of office. In the recent UK elections the Labour Party had their ass handed to them. When Gordon Brown decides to get around to calling a new election, he is going to be thrown out of office. All because the people are tired of being raped by the same fraudulent "leadership by example" the left wingers in America are talking about.

Tim, thank you for your input, I am really grateful of your opinion.

Guess I broke my own rule on talking politics. But hey whatever. These posts have shown who everyone really is.

Honestly, I am happy/not happy that I am moving back. looks like you want me gone, and looks like you will get it in 6 weeks.

I find myself being in an odd place defending Hillary Clinton.

However, you would be better off with her as president than Obama. She is on the right of Obama and actually a little more mainstream than the radical Obama.

So Madman, do you mind telling us who you'll be voting for? For the first time ever, I'm considering not voting for any of them. I might write in my mom!

Hasn't he answered that already? From his posts he'll be voting for the oldest old-fart to ever take the oath (assuming he wins, which I doubt), Grandpa John McCain! (BTW - IF McCain wins, he will be the oldest president ever sworn into office. Scary when you think about it.)

-G

I haven't made up my mind. They all suck dog feces. I can only say who I would NEVER vote for and I would NEVER vote for Obama.

If Hillary was actually nominated, it is possible I could vote for her, but not for any reason that I would like to see her as president.

The reason would be because in the next four years there is going to be tremendous amounts of damage done to this country through legislation and regulation. A certain amount of it will be related to the global warming fraud that legislators seem intent on ramming through.

I would prefer a Democrat to be in the White House during that period because the public is going to look to blame someone and they always look to the party that controls the White House for blame.