Here are all your answers:
http://www.powertank.com/uses.html

So for someone like me. The once or twice a month usage just airing up. One bottle would last quite awhile. Very Cool.

Just an FYI for those of you carrying your CO2 tank: Make sure the tank is somehow strapped down in the vehicle. If you roll over it will become a very heavy blunt object. If for some reason the top gets broken off, it'll become a missle.


As for running ARBs, I WOULD NOT use CO2 from a tank for running the arb in anything but an emergency situation.

For one thing the rubber O ring in the arb is somewhat temperature sensitive (as most rubber is). Shrinking and expanding it with dramatic temperature changes such as liquid to gas CO2 provides will decrease the already limited life span of that ring.

Further, when I tried this method of actuation when my compressor took a dump, the regulator had to be bumped to 105 psi to engage it. At that time my ARB was one of the first they made and required higher pressure. Now I believe they come from factory at 80 psi but can go as low as 60.

Another issue is that if you have to air up tires, run tools etc, you may not have enough CO2 left to run your ARBs. Bad situation if you needed them to get to where you are. Most likely you'll need them to get back out.

As for air supply, alot of guys are now disconnecting the arb compressor and leaving all wiring in tact as a back up. They are now running belt driven a/c compressors and using a valve that you manually open (small lever in cab) and close to acutate the locker. That way there is really no electrical component that can go bad. Good idea IMO. I'll probably use it in the 60 if I do ARB again.

More than a few cents,
Sean

i remember some one saying that CO2 one will not become a missle

compresed Air ones will become a missle

A few have contacted ARB about using CO2 to actuate the locker. ARB does not have a problem with it, nor will it void the warranty. As long as pressure is regulated properly, there should not be any problems.

CO2 will not act as a missile. CO2 is actually very safe for automotive use. It is good to have it strapped down though.

Cliff

Why would CO2 not act as a missle? Any bottle of compressed gas would act as a "projectile" if the regulator was knoocked off. It won't ignite...if thats what you consider a missle. Compressed bottles whether air, CO2 or nitrogen, whatever, have a lot of potential energy in them. Just be careful when securing them.
John

The powertank comes with a bracket that WILL BE BOLTED TO THE FLOOR! Trust me I have seen O2 bottles launch out the end of an aircraft carrier! Damn near as fast as an F-14 Tomcat!!!

Can't use a scuba cylinder with CO2. They aren't rated to the right pressure and don't have the right valve. Plus I don't think any suppliers woud fill it.

On a side note, I do carry my 30 cf pony bottle in my truck for filling the tires when I'm not using it for diving.

Oddly enough, ARB also claims their lockers are very reliable. Ya, right. I've run several, I know the truth. As for the O ring thing: it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that exposing rubber to extreme differences in temperature shrinks and expandes the O ring. Since this O ring is a major cause of air locker failure, I wouldn't recommend pushing your luck.

ARB sells tons of O rings. Why? B/c over time, the rubber deteriorates and becomes brittle causing air leaks. If you want to shorten that life span, go right ahead. It's your dime.

As for compressed CO2, yep it's not explosive like a missle. It does contain stored energy as someone already mentioned. It is liquid CO2. Expose it to air and it EXPANDS into its gaseous state. Ever seen the top get knocked off one? Blew a perfect hole in a concrete block wall. Why do you think welding shops store them outside and don't even want you bringing them in the building to get refilled? Tie it down and be safe if for no other reason than to keep in off your noggin in a rollover.
Sean

Side note: with ARB you are better off running dino based gear oil than synthetic. Synthetic doesn't have the lubricating properties of dino based gear oil so the o ring in the ARB is even more suceptible to wear. A very good dino gear oil is Lubrication Engineers (LE) 607.
Just an FYI,
Sean

How many pound tank is everyone running? I was looking into the 5lb for $75. I was curious what the dimensions are, I'm only looking to air up with it, and occassionally carry Impact gun, air rachet and wizz wheel. How long does it last with repeated use with air tools? Any info would be appreciated.
Thanx

This is a quote from Goliath_THE_X which was sent to a different mailing list I'm on. For the record he is a chemist and I truxt his word on the matter pertaining to a CO2 tank becomeing a missile. But everyone is free to beleive and thinnk what they like.

---------
CO2 is the safest thing to use for on-board "air". Compressed air or
any other gas would have to be pressurized to several thousand psi to
store enough gas (potential gas rocket). Since CO2 is stored as a
liquid, it makes it a very attractable source of "air". The worst
thing to worry about would be a tank flipping over in the X and the
valve getting knocked off. So much CO2 would be liberated into the
gas form, that all available oxygen would be displaced. Thus you
wouldn't be able to breath and you would die if you didn't get out of
the truck fast enough. CO2 is colorless and odorless, so if you
don't hear the gas escape it could be too late. But on the bright
side, a CO2 tank wouldn't become a rocket like a tank of compressed
air/gas.

If you don't believe the chemist........ perhaps you will believe
powertank....

"Isn't a CO2 tank like a bomb on my rig?"
NO. Unlike nitrogen or scuba tanks that hold 100% compressed vapor
energy, liquid CO2 goes through an evaporation process before it
becomes pressurized vapor energy and thus CO2 is released in a slower
manner maintaining a much lower tank pressure. This means if the
valve were to get knocked off of a nitrogen or scuba tank it would
become a gas rocket. . If the Power Tank valve were knocked off you
would be able to hold the tank in your hands like a CO2 fire
extinguisher.

------------------

Now I agree that the o-rings will be susceptable to cracking due to cold temps of the CO2, but a properly designed CO2 and ARB setup would allow the Air temp to rise to near normal temps before it ever reached the Locker.

Cliff

Cliff,
As you said, let everyone believe as they like. However, how many CO2 tanks have you witnessed lose their valves? I've witnessed two. One shot the valve through a cement block wall, the other shot it through an early 4Runner's soft top and into the air a hundred feet or so.

That being said, if you'd like to experiment; take your full CO2 tank to your garage and drop it on the floor til you break the valve off the end. Let us know how it goes . You're paid up on life insurance, right?

As for powertank's statement about being able to hold it in your hand-perhaps I should have clarified. The tank stayed stationary in all the above instances I witnessed. It's the valve you had to watch out for.

As for the ARB setup, good point. The temp probably would rise to an acceptable temperature, however, why take chances on something so difficult to repair in the field, especially when it's already a problematic part? Also, that notwithstanding, the other issues I brought up in my original post should be enough to make one think twice about using the powertank for locker engagement.

But heck, whatever. You brought up some really good points too.

Take care,
Sean

So I guess to be more safe you would need some sort of strap that would catch the valve if it were to ever go for a ride.

In climbing we have zipper slings were the sewing in meant to rip to reduce the force on a risky peice of protection.

Not sure what you would need if the thing went thru a wall (yikes). Still something to consider. I would have thought that if it was a big issuse that they would have a safe setup by now.

I really don't think you have to worry about knocking the PowerTanks valve off because of the way the handle protects everything. When I am wheeling everything is ratchet-strapped down, bunjied down, or in a box. So for now the PowerTank will be bunjied inside a plastic milk carton.

After witnessing yet another rollover this weekend, ANYTHING that heavy should be properly ratchet strapped down. In the instance from yesterday, a tool box weighing approx. 100 lbs. broke loose from the ratchet strap, nearly hitting the driver. MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS TIED DOWN!!!!

On a side note, most of the people I know and the ones that responded here made their own CO2 tank. Many do not have the guard on them like they should. Try and get a tank with a guard.
Sean

Ken do yourself a favor and buy the 10 pound tank, fill ups are generally the same exact price and the tank size is not that much different. I spent a little more when I bought my 10 lb tank as I opted for the aluminum cyclinder my gas supplier had vs the steel tank.

Actually, that's somewhat false... I've been using CO2 setups for years (granted, running paintball guns, but hear me out). Paintball industry people have pretty much solved the horizontal tank problem. Yes, CO2 is stored as a liquid. However, some of that CO2 is also in the tank as a gas. When laying on it's side, yes, liquid CO2 will get into the regulator. HOWEVER, what many people are using is called an anti-siphon tube- it's an angled tube, that protrudes from the valve and is angled upward into the gaseous CO2. (It's professionally mounted so that it's UP all the time)Just a thought, maybe it could be adapted here.

Thanx Todd. I spoke to my local Pub owner the other night about the CO2 tap setups. He said that if I want to save some money and get a bigger tank, I should talk to a soda distibutor and give them a deposit on a tank 10 or 20lb tank, the deposit is like $20 and the tank belongs to them, but you can buy it if you like. Its kind of a short term solution, but I thought it was pretty cool that I could buy the regulator, air hose and get the tank for under $70 ($40 regulator, $20 deposit on the tank, $10 air hose), instead of spending $100 on just a tank. The soda vendors also sell used tanks, regulators, etc. And if that still isnt cheap enough in Sunday's Paper they have auctions for Bar equipment from bars that went out of business. You could probably get a whole setup for next to nothing. I just can't justify $300 for a powertank setup. And I will not cut corners on safety issues.

Make sure the regulator has the correct output PSI, also the Powertank hose is worth the extra few bucks then a standard hose IMO.

That is why I spent the $300 for the PowerTank! Safety!!!! I didn't want to buy a used tank and possibly low quality regulator! 60 psi regulator won't cut it for running airtools or reseating a bead on a tire.

So DaySpring...do you have a source that could get me an anti-siphon tube for a 10lb bottle?

See, here's the problem. Whenever I got my tanks done, I had the anti-siphon tube installed BEFORE it was shipped. I'll have to do some poking around and see what I can find for you.

I understand some of the issues and concerns using the different systems, but even a scuba tank, if properly installed will not become a projectile. Have you ever actually seen one go off when the regulator was broken? If you looks closely, the exit point for the air from a scuba tank is on the SIDE of the neck, so really all that would happen is a loose tank turning in circles. Not quite that simple, but pretty much the results. I have a Compressed air tank (scuba) and enjoy the fact that it lasts for several MONTHS before needing to be refilled. I use it to air up tires as well as run air tools. ANY tank can become dangerous if not installed or used properly.

Can you buy just the hose without the regulator setup? I didn't see a hose price listed separate on their site. I already have a high psi regulator.

http://www.powertank.com/cart/prod-acessories.asp

Right here Craig...you have to click on the small thumbnails below everything.