That's just like... you know.. your opinion, man.

In Colorado, a poll recently showed 60 percent of the populace agrees gays should be allowed to marry. If this is the case in one of the most violently conservative states in the union, how can some people still be saying 'the majority' disagrees with same-sex unions?

Are anti-gay groups more threatened now because they're in the minority?

Maybe they should have been somewhat clearer in their definition of liberty.

Today we have people who feel that liberty entails the right to murder unborn children. We have even in the past had those who felt liberty entitled them to own another man as property. There was a Supreme Court back then who agreed with that ideal in the Dredd Scott decision.

The court has many times abused and bastardized the constitution to placate contemporary social trends. It has this ability precisely because the document is vague.

I would like to think that everyone on the court is also well versed in the The Federalist Papers . While not law, they are a look into the mindset and reasoning of much of the constitution. I guess you can say the papers were the sales pitch of the constitution to the states. They should still be a source of reference for the members of the court.

On liberty Madison wrote in Federalist No. 63 "that liberty may be endangered by the abuses of liberty". I feel we are getting close to that point.

I wouldn't want it too narrowly defined. I am however tired of the abuses. I am more in favor of a constitutional amendment further defining the powers of the Supreme Court itself. It's hard to imagine the founders approving of many decisions the court has made in the name of liberty. They also certainly would never approve of a court who cites contemporary European law in a decision. They would demand for the immediate impeachment of any justice who did. So should we.

If you read it again you will see that it was not defined like that. People defined it to suit there needs. Much like people do the bible,

You appall me. How anyone could equate gays to black slaves and jews under Hitler is a complete asshole.

Yeah right. We are all Hitlers and slave owners because we do not approve of pushing this agenda on society.

Go fuck yourself.

The problem is that it doesn't say anything about one's moral or religious views having an effect on government. Sure, the government can't tell me what religion to practice. They can't tell me what religion I can't practice, either.

Religion and morals, however, can be separated. Religion and ethics can be separated as well. If it is decided that abortion is ethically or fundamentally wrong, that is not a religious decision. That is a decision based on the views of the society in which it is decided.

Sorry to deviate from the gay marriage discussion - I just wanted to throw that out there.

That is going a bit far, I must say.

DAMMIT!! I had a response all written out and the topic got moved in here, so I lost it. Well, here's my brief summary...

So is it your position that the framer's essentially fucked up when they wrote the constitution? That they really didn't mean for the constitution to be a flexible document that would endure thru the years? That is a valid position, as it is shared by more than a few constitutional scholars. My feeling is simply that I don't think the Framers were that short-sighted or stupid. I think the length and generality of the constitution sheds a lot of light on what the framers were trying to accomplish. As far as the Federalist Papers go, they really only give the perspective of the federalists (go figure) - don't forget that even back in the early days there was some serious disagreement between the Federalists and the Republicans.

And to whoever moved the topic while I was trying to post...

Could you please clarify what you are trying to say? What was not defined like what?

Without a quote, how do we know who you are talking to?

Post the link to your poll. There is no where in the US where 60% of people are in favor of gay marriage. Maybe if you took the poll in Grenwich Village you get that result.

What makes you think CO is very conservative? You live there. The Sierra Club is there. There are tons of liberals in CO.

Post your poll. The readers can take a look and decide on it's merits.

That's the problem with you media people. You publish results of phoney and contrived polls as if they were fact.

Colorado is not even close to the most conservative state in the union.

No... I wouldn't go that far saying they fucked up.

I would say some would have clarified it some more. I agree it was left a little vague on purpose. Probably not so much for the sole purpose of a future growing society. Possibly more as a selling point to the states. They had to "sell it" to get it ratified.

Madman, have you ever thought about volunteering?

That job would be taken by either South Carolina or Mississippi or Alabama.

I would say Idaho or Utah.

Here's my poll.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_2537283,00.html

So basically you lied. "In Colorado, a poll recently showed 60 percent of the populace agrees gays should be allowed to marry".

Anyone ever notice the questions asked in these polls are never published? People are only given choices of responding to cleverly designed multiple choice answers. They are all BS.

What voters are polled? One district? The whole state? Why don't we ever hear the wider info about the control groups used in polls?

Has anyone ever been a part of these polls? Who are all these people being polled all the time? With all these poll results we hear every single day... everyone in the country should have been polled many times. I don't know anyone who has been polled.

They are BS. Almost all polls are nothing but propaganda with the thin veneer of "public opinion" thrown over it to make them look legit.

So the poll is false because it doesn't fit your views? It's quite comprehensive, trust me.

Especially with all those alter boys..

Now you are a tough guy.

You are nothing but scum. Who the hell are you to compare everyone who doesn't buy into this gay bullshit as being like Hitler and slave masters. You're a fucking idiot.

Now you drop the level of this thing even lower with that uncle comment. I would say you need to take a look at yourself.

I could care less if you have a deviant cousin. Some have said it runs in the family. Yeah.. we'll reorder all of society just because you and some others have gays in the family.

Don't threaten me. I can't remember the last time I was scared of anyone and I certainly wouldn't be scared of scum like you.

Governments perfer unarmed pesants just like religion perfers uneducated followers..

Just to add fuel to the fire..

I don't think it was comprehensive at all. It also didn't support the lie you posted.

Note the questions I posed in a post above. If the poll was comprehensive, we would know more about those that were polled.

That statement alone shows you are an uneducated bumblefuck who makes $6.00/hr. Don't get me wrong, I in NO way share Madman's views on gay rights, but you've been acting like a child - but in fairness, he's been posting some inflamatory shit too.

Am I now supposed to wish you luck in destroying society?

You make many assumptions. What makes you think you are better off financially then me? What makes you think that everyone who is opposed to this gay bullshit is opposed because of fear and hate? You can't make any guarentees.

The fear and hate argument is ridiculous. It makes me wonder if you actually have any type of education at all. Maybe some form of indoctrination, but arguing from that point of view doesn't show much indication of education.

That's the problem with people like you. You accuse everyone who disagrees with you as being hateful and fearful when it is anything but that. It is your side that is consumed with hate. Maybe you are just not as educated as you think or you would see it.

Madman, if you're convinced all media polls are bullshit and that the 'liberal' media controls everything (which is so untrue)and that society is crumbling underneath deviance and liberalism, why do you spend so much time fighting a fantastic inevitability that you've supported for so long?