How do you think it should be interpreted?

The special rights would be allowing them to marry the same sex. They already can marry the opposite sex like everyone else.

I don't know, I'm not a supreme court justice. It has been may years since my last real class on this, but my memory says that they are supposed to judge based on the constitution as written, not create laws through judgements because of thier own beliefs.

I didn't realize...ok, but I guess I was trying to replicate the whole redneck, bible thumper smear.

Well that's a twisted way to look at it. :rolleyes:

Judges aren't supposed to create laws based on their own beliefs, and by in large they don't (they can't, quite frankly). The constitution wasn't ever intended to be read literally - it's a constitution, not a statute. The framer's intentionally created a document that could be organic and change with time.

It doesn't say anything about electronic surveillance devices that can see thru walls (stuff like thermal imaging), but the constitution has been intepreted to prevent abuse of those devices.

I admit that substantive due process is quite an intellectual leap, but the equal protection clause in this context (gay marriage) is not.

If marriage is religious, then tell me why a heterosexual couple can go to city hall and get a marriage license, AND be married by a Justice of the Peace? If they're married in a church or in city hall, in the end, they're still married. What if the couple is Atheist - are they not married? As tough as this may be to accept, not everyone believes in God. The whole "marriage is a religious ceremony" is a bullshit excuse that is getting really fucking tiresome.

Ok, how about this one. I don't believe that gay marriage is the same, and if it ever came to a vote, I would vote against it since it is against my belief system. I have as much right to my opinion and what I want my kids exposed to as the gay couple does, and my family and I don't believe they can form a family in the traditional sense that we believe in.

Seriously, why do you care so much about what other families, gay or straight, are up to in their private lives? (I'm just wondering.) Because, it's really none of anyone else's business. As long as they're raising the kids in a loving home, what's the difference if they're gay or straight? The kids aren't going to "catch it".

Also, could you elaborate on why you don't think gay marriage is the same...aside from the obvious that it's between partners of the same sex?

Like I said I have no real problem with gay marriage, and I know gay couples that are raising kids. I will say that all things being equal having a mother and father raising children is superior to two mothers or two fathers.

So you think it's ok to impose your belief system in such a way as to discriminate against others?

Even today some people don't believe in bi-racial marriage, and while they have the right to beleive as they do, do they get to impose that belief system on others? What's the difference?

I want someone to explain to me why the whole issue deserves a Constitutional Ammendment. Look at all the other Ammendments - they cover issues that have a direct affect on a major portion of the U.S. population. Why is this issue at the federal level? No other question of this nature is at the federal level, with exception of those pertaining to federal troops. Both age of consent for marriage and age of consent for sex are decided at the state level. Before we go adding to the document, let's take a look at what is already there - check the 10th ammendment. Any citizen that exercises a right granted by a state that allows any action, be it gay marriage or concealed carry of firearms, has that particular action recognized by every state in the union under Article IV, Section 1 of the Constitution. That's why you are able to drive in any state on you license.

That is why they want an ammendment. They don't want other states being forced to recognize gay marriages.

The difference is bi-racial is still man-woman. I am no more trying to force my opinion on the gays than they are forcing thiers on me. Do you have children? Have you ever had to answer a 10-year old when they ask you what does gay mean? I don't believe my children need to be exposed to that. It is not in the belief system that my family and religion teach and believe, and I am entitled to that belief as much as anyone else. If you don't agree, good for you, that is why we vote on things in this country, so we can disagree and sort things out without violence.

I do not go to anti-gay marriage rallies, I do not write the bills for proposed laws, but I will vote on the bill if it gets presented to me, and I will live by whatever the outcome.

That my friend is what the first amendment is for, so I can speak my mind even though you disagree, not just so the people who agree with you can speak.

You are kidding , right? You cannot throw out the same sex issue, otherwise there is no issue. My family and I don't believe that a man and a man can be the same as a man and a woman. period. That is what our belief system is, and that is what we would vote on.

I'm sorry I don't agree with you, but I won't be bullied into changing the belief system that I have held all my life, regardless of how many times you all on the left act all angry and call me and people who share my views names. Personally, I'm a little tired of the whole if it feels good, do it attitude. I feel that is what is getting this country into trouble, and I'm glad to see a trend in the other direction.

So what? It was considered just as wrong as man-man or woman-woman in the past...

How wanting the same rights that you enjoy forcing an opinion on you?

Not yet, but my wife is starting to get more and more anxious. I'm not sure how much longer I can hold out.

Happy.

Thats just fine to hold those beliefs yourself - you have that right without question. But you don't have the right to deny others a constitutional right. You know the old saying that your rights only extend until they start to infringe on the rights of others? That applies here.

We shouldn't be voting on constitutional rights. We'll see if the constitution actually gets amended - I personally doubt it will happen, but it's possible.

I'm glad you don't go to those rallies. Actually the rallies put on by both sides tend to be attended by some strange folks.

This isn't a first amendment issue at all - I've already agreed with you that you have an absolute right to believe as you do and teach your children accordingly. This is a equal protection issue, and quite a clear violation of that clause. Because that's in the federal constitution, the state constitutions and laws passed by the states (as well as any Federal law) are not controlling.

By certain states allowing it and other not, it has already been forced on states that vote against it. I believe it was 2001Frontier that said it earlier, it's like driving through or in another state with my VA license, all states acknowledge each others licenses, as well as acknowledge each other's marriages. So, if Virginia votes against allowing it, but Massachusetts allows it, the gay couple that moves here is still considered married, and now my family has to deal with it, even though our state law does not recognize it. Just my opinion. Like I said, if I ever get to vote on it, my concience, and what I believe is right for my family and I dictate that I must vote against it. If the vote goes the other way, I will live with it as I do with other laws I disagree with. That is the difference between myself and those on the left. I admit when I lose, and live with it.

As far as your comments on what to tell my kids, and the fact that you don't have any yet, I'd like to see how your opinion changes as you and your children get older. I know mine did.

No, I wasn't kidding. And, you're statement doesn't answer the question of WHY you don't feel that gay marriage is the same - you're merely re-affirming your stance. The question is why do you feel that way? If you're going to have such a strong belief about something, at least have a reason for it other than, "That is what our belief system is, and that is what we would vote on." I'm just saying.

Who's bullying you into changing your beliefs? I'm not saying, "No, I think it's wrong. You should think the way I think!" I'm merely asking why you feel that way. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I am. But, I feel having a constitutional ammendment which would prevent a group of people (myself included) from being legally married, is discrimination.

If you think the "if it feels good do it" mantra is what homosexuals live their lives by, then you need to get to know a homosexual person a little better before you judge.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pnwbeers:
But you don't have the right to deny others a constitutional right. You know the old saying that your rights only extend until they start to infringe on the rights of others? That applies here.

We shouldn't be voting on constitutional rights.

Silly question. This is for anybody really, regardless as to which side of the issue you come down on. Please show me where a person has a constitutional right to marriage, or a civil union, for that matter. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm seriously curious.

Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness?

I was wondering if there was someone here who could give us that perspective. Thank you for saying so Digityzed, I have a better understanding of your point of view.

I actually knew quite a few gays here that my wife used to work with, and actually, thier mantra was just that. We used to talk to them and hang out with them before we realized we had a moral dilemma with thier lifestyle, and promiscuity, and how we could justify it in our hearts and minds when we were trying to teach our children differently. So, you see, my opinion comes from my experience with the gay people that I have met and gotten to know.

Thanks, Trihead, but where is the word marriage? For anybody, gay, straight or otherwise?