As I said before... I haven't gotten my X yet, because I'm waiting on a few money things to happen first... My question is, why shouldn't I get a Rubicon over an Xterra? They seem to be a WAY more offroad savy vehicle concerning angles of departure and whatever the other angle is called. Also, they seem to be able to go in water WAY deeper than an Xterra.

Does anyone have real experience with either a Rubicon Wrangler or another Wrangler package AND with an Xterra so they can give a VERY accurate comparison?

What pros/cons should I really be concerned with?

That being said, I drove the Jeep today. It drove AMAZINGLY different (and better) than I'd imagined. I had originally gone down to the Jeep dealership to test drive one to get the idea of a Wrangler out of my mind... but now I'm very interested in buying one. Hence my predicament.

ANY HELP?!

If rock crawling is your thing, and you do not need the rig to be as reliable or be able to carry much in the way of passengers or cargo...you want maximum factory rock crawling performance, period...the Rubicon is hard to beat.

I went from a Jeep upbringing, to an X, as I got tired of fixing it (OK, the wife got tired of me fixing it...), and it couldn't carry enough stuff or people (Two kids, no where for the legs to go, etc...forget luggage).

If its just a toy for playing on the rocks, I'd get the Jeep...if its a daily driver and you need it to run and get you to work every day, and get dirty on the weekends, etc... I'd get the X.

If you do sand more than rocks, or do mud not rocks, etc...the Rubi loses its charm, as its really a rock oriented beast.

The X is well rounded, and works better as a daily driver than the jeep does.

Get the Rubicon and join a Jeep forum.

Exactly what I expected TJ. Thanks. I'm still thinking the Xterra fits my lifestyle best. We're still going to all agree that the rubicon is a better offroader in pretty much every situation right? Or is the Xterra more badarse than I can know without owning one first?

I just want to make sure I'm not getting a soft truck. I want something truly rugged. Just trying to get testimonials here too.

MaloCS, why do you say it like that?

On dunes or other sand terrain, the rubi sucks...and the X wins...in mud, its at least closer depending upon tires...on rocks, the rubi's two live axles and twin lockers make a compelling argument.

As far as usefulness off the trails, or even being able to bring enough trail stuff...the rubi's lose big time...

You'd think the camel trophy races and other famous off road races would be dominated by jeeps, but, the wranglers are just too small to carry enough spare parts, tool and survival gear to compete....and, the two live axles can't keep up with the high speed off road work...they bounce all over the place at speed...and the more sophisticated suspensioned rigs tend to do better.

So - it sounds like the X is thre best option for your needs.

(BTW-I think Mal was being sarcastic)

Let me ask the question a different way:

Have you ever been offroading before (in your own 4x4 vehicle)?

From the way you ask your questions (and the fact that you're asking the question here at all), I doubt it. That's fine... nothing wrong with being a noob...

Is the Rubicon a better rock crawler than the Xterra? Hell yes.

Is the Xterra a good rock crawler and a good/tough offroad vehicle in general? Hell yes.

Since this is your first offroader (I assume) and will be your only vehicle and daily driver (I assume), I think you'll be better served by the Xterra. You won't be disappointed in its offroad capability.

Oh, BTW, you're going to want to modify EITHER vehicle a bit before doing much SERIOUS offroading. Both vehicles need rock sliders (often called rocker knockers in the Heep world) and armor improvements. The Rubicon has this scoop thing that you get stuck on all the time with a factory rig. One thing I can say in favor of the Jeeps - is that they are generally cheaper to upgrade. Since there aren't as many Nissan offroaders, the aftermarket is a bit more expensive.

Anyone else want to post up some offroad pics to show what we can do?







Black Bear Pass in Ouray, CO (not too technically difficult - but very steep and narrow... people slip off it, fall 1000 feet or so, and die from time to time):::

The Steps on Black Bear:






A little poser shot at the bottom of Poughkeepsie Gulch/Engineer Pass trail entrance:


OH - a couple afterthoughts:

The word you were looking for was approach angle. Approach and departure angles determine how steep a climb you can enter/leave without scraping bumper. It's an important thing to think about - but not the end-all-be-all of vehicle comparison criteria.

Water fording: Deep water fording is cool - and you should avoid doing it at all costs. Every vehicle has a depth limit, and whatever that limit is, you'll reach it - and go past it... and quite possibly DESTROY your vehicle by soaking the ECU, sucking water into the engine etc. I'd cross streams up to a couple feet deep without worrying about it too much... but you won't see me doing those water-over-the-hood things that others have posted. It's just too great a risk to the vehicle.

i am a total newbie.. not hiding that AT all. that's why i'm asking you fellas with the X how capable they are in comparison with the rubi.

i like the X better for all of my needs i think. better interior too. way more storage. can carry my dog in it easier too.

i always wanted to go through some water... but i'm VERY glad you told me how potentially harmful it is to a vehicle. suppose that idea is out the door now unless i can find a very shallow creek or whatnot.

now, i guess the last argument for the jeep is will i enjoy driving it more. considering the top and doors can come off and all. i love the xterra looks. but the black on black rubi looks smooth too.

lastly, what are suggestions on first mods on an x?

Hell yeah!

That's a good point too... really just depends on what's most important to you.

Really, the BEST thing to do is to have a daily driver car and then a trail rig. 'cause as they say:::


Personally, I have the best of both worlds.

My offroad rig/tow vehicle/general purpose large vehicle:


and my wind-in-my-hair fuel efficient fun-to-drive babe magnet daily driver:


There are some difficulties with having two cars - higher insurance, double the registration fees, inspections etc etc - but there are some great things, too.

In any case, if you are really planning to offroad a lot, a brand new vehicle may not be the way to go. They get scratched up, dented etc etc. It's just part of leaving the pavement. You could probably buy both of my vehicles (well, not MINE ) for the price of a new fully loaded X. An older Jeep or an '00/'01 X would serve you well.

Oh - regarding first mods... the '05+ Xterras are significantly changed from the '00-'04 like I have, so I'll let someone else talk about that - but I know you need the rock sliders (replacement step rails that are made from thick steel that will support the entire weight of the vehicle and won't bend or break when rocks smash into them) and probably other armor upgrades.

Check out Calmini for some of what is available.

I'll stop rambling now. No matter what way you go, get involved with your local Xterra/Jeep/Whatever club and you'll have a blast. They'll teach you a ton and you'll always have someone to wheel with (offroading alone is a baaad idea, mmmkay?)

There was an '05 in my group at ECXC this year. The only thing he had was 33's on it. He went everywhere that we took him. So of the trails we were on weren't stock friendly, but he didn't get stuck one time. I think he only used the locker a few times. I was completly impressed with it. So impressed, 3 weeks later went out and bought the wife one. They're not that many mods available for it yet. SchrockWorks has sliders available now for it. Their skids will be out soon from what I understand. Calmini 2005 Xterra has mods for it also.

OK this is a great vehicle all around. You can go drive across the country ver comfortably hit some hard core trail. Turn around to another section with ALL of your gear. Do some mild back country expedition type driving. Just think about it, if you want to carry anything and go anywhere get an X.

Now smile and think DAMN!!! I NEED AN XTERRA!!

Yo... do you have a larger version of that image of the X's going up that huge rock? I'd LOVE to have that as a wallpaper!

that "huge rock" would be the famous Lion's Back in Moab, UT.

i'm pretty much with what everyone said so i cant say much other than i love my X, only thing is i wish it was locked..buuuutttt... what year X are you looking to get? "older" 00-04 style (00-01 have the square headlights(GOOD KIND ) (02-04 are round..boo lol JUST KIDDING theyre all great) or the new 05's? if you get the 05 get the OR with the rear locker, or if you go older, you can grab an 01 for around 12,000 and put a couple Gs into it (front and rear air lockers...steel bumpers, sliders\skids, new T-case gears...just to name a few) and make it more capable than a jeep and you'll spend less money than you would have on a Rubi

Xterra: Everything you need, nothing you don't...

Best of both worlds: The Phoenix

I have both (well, my wife has the Rubicon, and I have an 05 X). Both are stock, but even so, both can get us to all sorts of places. Still, this summer we left the Rubicon at home and took the Xterra to Moab. Here's why:

-The X holds way, way more gear, and you can secure the gear better using the utilitrack.

-My stock 05 X has better ground clearance than a stock Rubicon (go to rubiconownersforum.com and read up on the low-hanging transfer case skidplate, a.k.a. the "shovel.") In the Rubi, we're always banging something. Once I get sliders for the X, we'll be set.

-The X gets better gas mileage and has a bigger gas tank, which gives it a much longer range for backcountry expeditions.

-The X got us to Moab comfortably. (A Rubicon doesn't need a big gas tank, because no one would want to ride in one long distance.)

Now, having said that, the Rubi is a great Jeep. At 20,000 miles it hasn't had a single problem (and no squeeks, unlike the X). It's articulation is better, and 4lo in the Rubi is just plain awesome. Comparing two stock vehicles, my wife's Rubicon can out-crawl my Xterra. It's also nice to be able to put the top down on a nice day.

But the Xterra offers so much more if you're into more than just rock-crawling. We like to hike, bike, and camp in the backcountry, and so we use the X as our expeditionary vehicle. The Rubi gets used for short day trips to the mountains and (ironically) whenever we drive downtown (it's smaller and easier to park).

If you do long, expedition style wheeling or family wheeling how are you going to pack a Rubicon? Thats possibly the biggest issue. Remember a stock Rubicon has TERRIBLE ground clearence and needs lifted ASAP.
As far as water fording No way, I dont know how they measure but knowing how US built vehicle intake systems are there is no way a Rubicon can touch an Xterra.

As far Approach Departure, remember the 05 Xterra has a knuckle dragger front bumper required by new federal regulations, but once replaced with an off-road bumper I would bet it challenges the Rubicon.
Overall a Rubicon would be more capable just based on wheelbase, if your entire goal is extreme rock crawling, and of course solid front axle. BUT, for long trips....Its all a compromise. I run everything from easy to VERY extreme, and a chose an 05x as my next build up.

i think i was busy being dazed by all of the hype behind a jeep. it makes no sense for me to get one i'm thinking... and yes Mudx4x4, i'm getting the OR 4x4 version with the rear limited slip (let's be honest, it's a limited slip, not a true locker right?).

and i intend highly on riding the stock tires to the ground while i save up for a good new set of tires. i also intend on putting on a new front end. what suggestions can be made about the tire size? how big of tires could i COMFORTABLY get before i have to put a lift kit on the truck?

X all the way. WAY more practical

lastly, what sort of squeeks can i expect to have? and how easily are they remedied?

the 05 OR do have an actual locker, not a LSD, so you will be locked in the rear, i own an 01 but i read somewhere that you can fit up to 33's without trim, but i'll let an 05 owner confirm that, sqeaks? its a different front end from the other generation but the rear leafs, expect sqeaks, mine sqeak alot but i just sprayed the bushings on the shackles down with wd-40 about a month ago...havent heard a sound since, but at ECXC i did hear an 05 sqeaking, but for me it was an easy fix, but like i said ill let the 05 owners chime in on stuff about the truck, good luck with the purchase

how about a limited slip front diff and a dana 44 rear with a detroit E-Locker? And you better believe it works!

As far as the squeaks go, well, the 05 is still a first year model. I had to zip tie some cables under the driver's side dash (no big deal), but the most annoying problem is that the rubber stops that hold the hood up are noisy.

Topic: Help with new \'05 annoying squeaking sound from hood

I put a lot of offroad miles on my X in Moab this summer, and the rubber stops basically fell apart. I've got electrical tape holding them together right now, and I haven't bothered to replace them because I think it'll just happen again. When I get a chance, I'm going to make replacement stops of some sort.

My driver's side window also rattles like hell when half-way down on a dirt road-- sounds like it's going to break. My dealer has been working on this one.

Any vehicle's going to make noises if you drive it off road, but in the 7000 miles I've driven it, my 05 X has been more rattle-prone than the Rubicon. I suppose that's what I get for buying a first year vehicle. In general Nissan gets better quality reviews than Jeep. For what it's worth, my brother-in-law's 05 Frontier has been super-quiet (but the only place he ever drives it is to work and the mall).

I wouldn't let a few rattles or squeaks turn you off from getting an 05 Xterra. The new ones really are well thought out for off roading-- flat undercarriage, rear locker, good ground clearance, great storage. I would, however, read through the 2005 Forum to make sure you can live with/fix its weaknesses-- some rattles and squeaks, a noisy AC system, and an easily-scratched interior.

Right now the 05 Xterra is a pretty unique vehicle. It's the size of Land Cruisers and Land Rovers that cost tens of thousands more, has V6 mileage with the power of a V8, and nicely balances the needs of a daily driver and an offroader. The Rubicon doesn't do this (although the all-new 2007 4-door Wrangler and the 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser may-- but neither vehicle is out yet, and both will be first year models when they arrive in showrooms).

not too concerned with squeaks i suppose. i'll probably be blasting the cd player anyway.

only concern now is the, as i've heard about before, easily scratched interior... that sux.

well put allahades... the 05 truly is what you said. uniquely cool.

Oh dude. I do want. I yearn. I need.

Now, to find the price I want... and to decide between Silver/Night Armor and Black.

MmMmMMMMmmm. Tasty.