Is it only me or are you also getting sick and tired of hearing all the shit that is going on in the middle east?.

Things were on track, although on thin ice but there was hope. THEN the Israelis could not keep their pecker in their pants and had to stir the pot. We are now back to square 1 with more carnage than ever.

Did the Israeli's not learn ANYTHING about the past, History does obviously not play a role in their thinking, Give a little and quell the flames that has grown into a blind hatred.

The Arabs have not learned anything either, HELLOOOO Jihad and martyrdom does not win wars. You can not piss higher than the other guy.

I think Bush should have devoted a little more attention to that conflict instead of finishing up what Dad left behind. I think it is time that an international power goes in and stop this shit once and for all....

Man

I cant really blame Israel for wanting to bitch slap those who continue to mame and destroy their people.

There will never be peace there. Not as long as 'Jihad' is taught to kids from birth. Its ingrained into their thinking. No peace plan will change that, unless all of Israel packs up and leaves. (Not gonna happen)

Not taking any sides, I just think Israel has shown they can not manage the problem, and it is time the international community takes over...this shit has to stop from both sides. Build a fucking wall.....

I think we need to get all the middle easterners(sp) shit faced drunk and high and see what happens.

I like what Michael Savage said a while back on MSNBC
Carpet bomb the middle east with playboy magazines and those little airline bottles of booze

Those fuckers have been killing each other for thousands of years,what makes anyone think they're gonna stop now. I say, stand back, let them go to war and lets have a clear cut winner once and for all. Either that or give the Israeli's Montana, move them all over here and let the rest of the midddle east blow themselves to hell

But you are taking sides. I almost threw up my beer reading your original post.

Either you are totally clueless about the situation or maybe my original suspicions about you are true.

Maybe your cluelessness is derived from the anti-semites in the Axis of Media in both our countries. Do yourself a favor.. educate yourself a little about the truth in all this mess before you proclaim it is always Israel's fault. When Israeli's dress as Arabs with bomb belts under their clothes and when they fill Red Crescent ambulances with explosives and kill civilians intentionally then you might have a right to start bitching. Israel attacks in retaliation and targets the terrorists.

Palestinian leadership should worry about collateral damage to their own people before they plan their next attack. The truth is they don't care. They know the Axis of Media in the West will always portray Israel as the evil aggressor. Clueless people like you buy into it.

Hamas and the Palestinian terrorists will never stop and want the destruction of Israel. Plain and simple. What do you expect Israel to do? Just sit back and let their citizens be continually slaughtered. Just look how many Israeli's have been killed and maimed since this Roadmap to Murder started. President Bush should be ashamed of himself for the stance he has taken the past few days.

Appeasing Arab insanity and terrorism is totally out of control....

Got any pictures of Dead Palestineans?. I know which side you are on, taking sides is not the intent with this post. I am just sick and fucking tired of hearing about this shit day in adn day out. Pussy footing around the issue is not solving ANYTHING. Either Israel cleans house and ends the problem once and for all or lets the international community do it something has to give. I too am pissed when I see a 13 year old with 20lbs of semtex brainwashed into thinking he is going to make a difference, its fucked up and a waste of effort. All I am saying is that this shit has got to stop from BOTH sides.

Your original suspect about me does not really interest me, we have been down that road before and I consider myself objective enough to see both sides of a story. So if we are to have a talk about this let's be civil.

Claus

Madman,
I think you could have made your point without posting those pics.

I agree Claus, I'm tired of it as well. Its senseless and pointless.....to us.

With such a cultural difference I don't think that peace could ever or will ever be achieved unless they just divide everything up and split it. Or, as some one said, just build a wall.

What amazes me is that when Israel closes down the boarders they have a lot less conflict, yet they seem to reopen them time after time.

Shut them down, wall it up and keep 'um all out.

Claus.. You took sides in this post...

Please explain how things were on track. Did you forget the terrorist attacks of last weekend? How about Monday?

If anything, the Israeli leadership is betraying it's own people by not protecting them. They don't protect them because of the anti-semitic and anti-Israeli sentiment that is rampant in the West. Israel knows exactly who all the terrorist leaders and enablers are. We all know they are not allowed to eliminate them. This should be the shame of the West but it is not. Liberal racism and insanity rule the day.

Israel is the canary in the birdcage down in the mine of bullshit. We are suffocating it.

The United States and Europe are just as guilty and complicit as the Palestinian terrorists. We enable them and provide support. Why don't Israel kill them? I think you know the answer.

I'm hoping Israel just says FU to the rest of the world and deals with this problem the way they should. I doubt it will happen.

Yeah KJ... The pictures are necessary. If you are offended by reality.. Too bad.

EDIT: The Anti-Semites at The NY Times were forced to make one of their frequent corrections regarding Israel:

the fighting and carnage in my opinion will never stop. there is so much behind closed doors that we do not know about. i have been to the middle east and there is not much to do there but pound sand. it is terrible that this type of terrorist warfare happens. i think that it is time for the international peace keepers to step in and try to restore some sort of peace, but it will never completely stop though. IMO

Just out of curiosity...what would everyone think if suddenly it was decided that metro L.A. was to be carved out of the US and given to the survivors of Milosevic? And the current LA residents were told that LA was now to be miles east...in the middle of Death Valley. So they still had a "home." Just not as choice.

I know...it's an oversimplification. But is that not how the Palestinians feel? Sure, Israel was there 2,000 years ago. But it was lost. Did we re-organize Austria-Hungary? Or the Ottoman Empire? Will those ever be re-established? I seriously doubt it. Will we give part of Texas back to Mexico? No. How about the land that originally belonged to Indians in the eastern states? We destroyed them. But we're not going to give back what we took.

(And before anyone tries to tag me with some "anti-semite" label, I will have you know that my one of my best friends, whom I've known longer than anyone outside my immediate family is Jewish. I have been to his temple many times. His family and my family were extremely close. They put us up for several months when my parents took my brother to Duke to take care of his brain tumor. Anti-semite couldn't be further from me if you tried.)

I'm a big time supporter of Israel, but I think that they need to scrap all of the outer settlements. But I do not have a problem with Israel defending itself after a homicide bombing.

Isn't it funny though how the neighboring Arab countries deal with Palestinians? How many did the country of Jordan kill in the past 100 years?

You have to give it to Israel, they took a relatively desolate area and made it into a agricultural, technological and cultural rich area in region cursed with jealousy, fanatacism and backstabbing.

Although not directly related, here's some fun propaganda:

Before and After

Moby...

You are talking more bullshit. There was no such thing as a Palestinian until Yassar Arafat and his buddies invented them.

Secondly the land there was always Jewish. For thousands of years. The Muslims weren't in existance until what.. the seventh century. Then they went on a slaughter spree of conversion. Later becoming the Ottoman Empire which fell.

I only wish you liberals attributed the same standards of modern Christian missionaries to the sword wielding Muslim conquerers of old. One of Islam's core tenets is the hatred and destruction of Jews from day one. Infidels like Christians would become "dhimi's".

And by your standards of modern countries taking land and not giving it back... Israel obtained the West Bank and Gaza through wars. If the US does not have to give back land we won in wars (Texas Independance), why should Israel? Does anti-semitism validate double standards?Especially when hordes of hostile people have moved there after the land was won. You are perpetuating the liberal mores of double standards(and anti-semitism maybe without realizing it).

You obviously don't know much of the timeline of Israel and the so-called Palestinians.

Don't hide behind the "I have friends who are Jews" bullshit. It's an old lie and exactly what I said.. it's bullshit. Liberals are always quick to pull that. Let me see you pull the same crap you espouse here in a synagogue. You would be run out on your ass.

The self loathing liberal Jews that think like you are apostates who never go to temple and who don't give a shit about their own.

You remind me of the people who claim The Holocaust never happened and those who deny Stalin's purges of millions never happened either.

The destruction of Israel is happening before your eyes and you are denying it and making excuses. That is either anti-semitism or ignorance. I'd like to know which side you are on. It does seem obvious...

Again I think both Moby and the Madman makes good and valid points. I think we can all agree that spilling of blod on both sides is meaningless and will not solve anything, Yet I am so tired of hearing about the bullshit that goes on, and lack of action. Why is it that noone has said STOP, we are going in and splitting the 2 sides up once and for all, It happened in the Balkans.Lack of economic interest?. Are the US an Israel too close?.

I too do not for a moment think that carving out a homeland for anyone will solve anything.

Again I think both Moby and the Madman makes good and valid points. I think we can all agree that spilling of blod on both sides is meaningless and will not solve anything, Yet I am so tired of hearing about the bullshit that goes on, and lack of action. Why is it that noone has said STOP, we are going in and splitting the 2 sides up once and for all, It happened in the Balkans.Lack of economic interest?. Are the US an Israel too close?.

Are the US and Israel too close?....

Amazing how you never question our support for the Palestinians.

Israel has almost 1 million Arabs in it's country as full productive equal citizens. How many Jews live in the Palestinian territories as productive equal citizens? How many Jews are welcome in the Palestinian territories as equal ctizens? How many Jews would be welcome in a new Palestinian State as equal citizens?

I thought liberals in the West were all about multiculturalism and tolerance? How come liberals never question Muslims regarding their "intolerance"? It must be that liberals hate the Jews. How else can it be explained? Their hatred of Christianity is also well documented.

Christianity and Judaism are on the chopping block. People like you Claus have the axe in your hand. You are the hate mongers whether you realize it or not. I think you are a "sheep" for the new left. I also think you are a bigot regardless of what you may think of me.

OK, let me go through each of these things...

From Websters:
Palestine: former country bordering on the Mediterranean on W & Dead Sea on E; a part of the Ottoman Empire 1516-1917, a British mandate 1923-48; now approximately coextensive with Israel with Arab Palestinians in the West Bank having limited self-rule since 1993.

So yes, Palestine, and hence, Palestinians, have been in existence for a LONG time. Maybe not YOUR definition of one.

From dictionary.com: Occupied since prehistoric times, it has been ruled by Hebrews, Egyptians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, and Turks.

It's not always been Jewish.

Quote:

I only wish you liberals attributed the same standards of modern Christian missionaries to the sword wielding Muslim conquerers of old. One of Islam's core tenets is the hatred and destruction of Jews from day one. Infidels like Christians would become "dhimi's".

I never actually said who was right and who was wrong. I plainly stated, "That's how the Palestinians view it."

Quote:

And by your standards of modern countries taking land and not giving it back... Israel obtained the West Bank and Gaza through wars. If the US does not have to give back land we won in wars (Texas Independance), why should Israel? Does anti-semitism validate double standards?Especially when hordes of hostile people have moved there after the land was won.

Right. And Israel was taken by others long ago. But it was not taken back by Palestine or the arabs. It was taken back by your favorite organization, the UN.

Quote:

You are perpetuating the liberal mores of double standards(and anti-semitism maybe without realizing it).

Again, I never said who was right or wrong.

Quote:

You obviously don't know much of the timeline of Israel and the so-called Palestinians.

I don't know much, no. I will freely admit that. Apparently you are the expert. I do know that Israel ceased to exist as a country in 70 AD.

Quote:

Don't hide behind the "I have friends who are Jews" bullshit. It's an old lie and exactly what I said.. it's bullshit.

OK, I'll give you that. I erred in using that. It's the equivalent of saying, "I'm not against blacks, I have friends who are black." That being said, would an anti-semite go to a Friday night Jewish service? Would an anti-semite attend Bar Mitzvahs? Would an anti-semite wear a yalmulke in the temple? I know I'm not anti-semite, my friends know I'm not. That's enough for me.

Quote:

Liberals are always quick to pull that. Let me see you pull the same crap you espouse here in a synagogue. You would be run out on your ass.

Actually, I have had the discussion with my friends dad, who is "extreme" Jewish (for lack of a better description). He even goes so far as to refuse to by any German auto (even though he can more than afford one).

Quote:

The self loathing liberal Jews that think like you are apostates who never go to temple and who don't give a shit about their own.

Like I said...I never said who was right or wrong. I merely put out a hypothetical situation.

Quote:

You remind me of the people who claim The Holocaust never happened and those who deny Stalin's purges of millions never happened either.

And yet it's the extreme right wingers who think that. (And we all know I'm FAR from that.)

Quote:

The destruction of Israel is happening before your eyes and you are denying it and making excuses. That is either anti-semitism or ignorance. I'd like to know which side you are on. It does seem obvious...

It's not obvious. I agree with Claus. They BOTH need to get their acts together. It's a vicious cycle. One attacks. On retailates. The other retailiates. At least they got their act together in Northern Ireland (somewhat, anyway...it's still in progress). It's to the point where I'd wager most of the younger Arabs and Israelis don't even know the real reason they are fighting. Arabs are taught at a young age to hate Jews. I dare say a lot of Israelis are taught the same thing.

Another thing...

I don't think a lot of people realize that the Palestinians (the average Palestinian...not Arafat or his terrorist friends) have been pawns in this entire thing. When Israel became an official state again in '48, the surrounding Arab countries used the Palestinians. "Come here, we'll make sure you're treated right." And then turned around and fucked them.

A very interesting read (written by a Muslim):

The Quran and Jews

So as you can see...it's NOT Islam that is the culprit.

Why do you always have to twist things into something they are not, me a hate monger and a Bigot!?, get the fuck over yourself. I look at EVERYTHING you say objectivly and honestly try to see your point. I admire your passion for what you believe regardless of weather I agree or not.

I have NOTHING against the Jews. To me there is only one race... No people should be percecuted like that.

Again in my original post I merely asked other people if they were tired of seeing the carnage and death. It is depressing and I think we have had enought shitty news the past 2 years or so.

I would still buy you a beer if we met in NY.

Interesting article... read http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20030521-094809-5098r.htm

Please tell me what an "average " Palestinian is? Until recently most were born elsewhere. Arafat was born in Egypt.

You are wrong. There was no such thing as a "Palestinian" until Arafat and his buddies invented the whole bullshit in the late 1950's. The whole scam was invented as a way to comabat the State of Israel. The Palestinians that moved there were Arabs not wanted in other states and Arabs who re-invented themselves and were reborn as "Palestinians". How come no other Arab country wants these people anywhere near their borders? They are rabble.

Jordon killed tens of thousands of "Palestinians" in the 70's yet no one hears anything about that. They tried to overthrow the government and over 100,000 were killed. Jordan's population is 60% of what can be considered "Palestinians". No other Arab country wants these people because they are rabble. They would rather kill them than take them into their country... and no one in the West cares. Except for the propagnda value.

The original State of Jordan was designed as the so-called "Palestinian State". It's name was "Trans-Jordan". People who call themselves "Palestinians" today were either thrown out of other countries and resettled in the existing terratories and the decendants of those that did not accept life in countries like Jordan.

The world is now fucking Israel in it's sympathies to this discarded rabble. It is wrong. It is all born out of anti-semitism and hatred for Israel.

Israel needs to defend itself and kill all the terrorist infrastructure.

A non-jew who has lived in Jerusalem and family has lived there for generations. It's not like the area was not populated before the 50s you know.

The Jews didn't start repopulating there until the 1880s.

Just reposting a link I edited in earlier...

An interesting read, written by a muslim.

(This is what I'm talking about when I say the Palestinians are pawns.)

The Qur\'an says that Allah gave the Lan...the end of days

You're a liar Claus. You started this thread to get a reaction and you got it.

You are probably the biggest bullshit artist to ever post on XOC. You knew exactly what you were doing. Your bigotry and bias comes to the forefront and now you deny it. Yeah right...