Seems our President has stirred up a little controversy again. A lot of people (including republicans) are questioning Bush's latest stunt of the tailhook jet landing on the USS Abraham Lincoln. Not only was it deemed "risky", but it seems it potentionally delayed the arrival of the aircraft carrier, and cost a whole bunch of extra money.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-05-07-bush-landing_x.htm

Now I have no problem with the President visiting troops and congratulating them on the great job they did, but one has to wonder about this blatant photo op. What was especially troublesome was the initial cover up for this publicity stunt:

"The White House initially said the carrier was too far out at sea to use a helicopter. Tuesday, Fleischer acknowledged that the ship was close enough."

:rolleyes:

Those are great rumors, but I've heard that it didn't delay them, and it only cost a few dollars extra.

Which set of lies do you wish to believe?

None of those are true. Just got done talking/chatting with 4 different people from that ship. It may have been a great photo op, but come on now......

Well according to staffers on the House Appropriations Committee, this marked showmanship cost over 1 million dollars. The only "lie" I've read about this so far is the White House saying the aircraft carrier was too far out for a helicopter landing.

Those sailors looked pretty damn happy to have him there. I didnt see Byrd squauking when Clinton went to Bosnia. I thought it was fitting. The President is a pilot. He actually flew the thing himself for a bit. When I saw him in the flightsuit I was proud as can be. Just more political enemies of the President going on about anything they can find. They are coming up woefully short.

What part of this thread did you not fully understand. The point is not about a President visiting troops, it's about a risky photo op that cost tax payers, and an initial cover up from the White House. Funny, I don't Remember Clinton making a tailhook landing on an aircraft carrier...

:rolleyes:

Looks as if he was suspended from flying because he refused to take a drug test.

Read

Lets see... I seem to recall that there were something like 10,000 plus sorties flown off the deck of that carrier in the 10 months they were at sea without a single incident. It seems to me that safety was a non-issue. A million dollars is like $5.50 in government speak. I wonder how much it wouldve cost for Marine 1 to make the same trip. My guess is not much less. :rolleyes:

-White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said though the ship was making unexpected good time to port Thursday, it would have remained offshore until its scheduled arrival Friday — even without Bush's overnight visit.

Navy Rear Adm. Stephen Pietropaoli said it's procedure for ships to arrive as scheduled out of courtesy for the waiting families: "They do a lot of planning, and you don't surprise them and show up (early) before moms and children get there."-

Your point? Does it change the fact he took the controls for a bit? Does it change the fact he knows what he is doing?

Don't you think a tailhook landing on an aircraft carrier is more risky than a helicopter landing? Did you notice that Bush LEFT in a helicopter? Why couldn't Bush have waited until the aircraft carrier was docked?

I missed the part where he was suspended from flying because he refused to take a drug test...

What I read; He was suspended for failure to accomplish annual medical examination. There was also a Major Bath who was suspended for the same thing. Was he getting high too??

Sure I do Sean, and yes I noticed. Was it a good photo-op? Sure. Was it politically motivated? Damn right it was. But I honestly believe that it was also designed to be a testament to the skill and ability of the men and women that serve aboard the Abraham Lincoln. He was trying to say that these men and women do thier jobs so well that even the President should feel safe enough to put his life in the hands of these sailors. Anything to make them feel great about what they do is ok by me. Plus he probably assured himself of some more military votes.

That's some pretty good flag waving there, but like it or not, the stunt was risky. Bush could have thanked the troops just as well with the ship docked.

You guys are looking at this all wrong. If I was President of the free world. You are damn right I want to land on an aircraft carrier. That would be pretty damn cool.
THis was all a moral booster for OUR troops. To me if I was on that ship it would of been a great honor to meet the president and be apart of that history.
So the rest of you winney bitches that can not think a single positive thought about moral over $$$ then go fuck yourself.

If I remember correctly once a commander reach a certain rank they lost flight status. I could be wrong but I remember an Admiral that got repremended for taking hops due to his rank.

That is pure speculation.

And others would argue that this was a risky and selfish stunt from a President campaigning early for re-election. How would have this "moral booster" as you call it have looked if the jet crashed? You can't equate the risk factor of an aircraft carrier landing to the landing made on an airport runway.

Safety is NEVER a non-issue on an aircraft carrier, especially when you've got the President coming in. I'm curious as to whether the Secret Service raised any objections.

Regardless, I don't see what the big deal is. I think the crew of the Lincoln deserved it. They were heading home and got sent back out in December (November/January?). They were stuck out there a lot longer than they originally had planned. Those sailors deserve some sort of thanks/recognition for doing that.

My brother in law was on the Lincoln and I asked him about the risk factor months ago about landing on a moving aircraft carrier.
He explained it this way. "I would rather land on an aircraft carrier then have some airbus land at an airport". He explained that the pilots that land on these ships have don hundred of touch and go's and even more successful landings.
I would think the helicopter the Prez flys in has a greater risk in crashing.

Clinton was loathed by the military. The military loves George Bush.

Clinton was too busy slashing the military and reducing our naval strength by over 200 ships.

Clinton was too busy selling plots in Arlington National Cemetery to leftist anti-war activists like Larry Lawrence who fabricated a military service record all while Bubba was banging his trophy wife.

The traitor Clinton was too busy transferring Pentagon missile technology to Communist China for campaign cash so now every American city is targeted by Chinese ICBM's equivalent to ours.

Clinton was too busy selling the Lincoln bedroom to his lefty hollywood friends and running 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue as a whorehouse.

Let's face it... Clinton was too busy selling out America.

Everyday in Iraq they are discovering mass graves and evidence of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's tortured and killed by Saddam. Everyday evidence of EU and UN corruption involving the Saddam regime is uncovered. This is what you lefty cry baby bitches are worried about?

If you want to complain about the administration wasting money how come I don't hear any of you liberals bitching about the $15 billion dollars Bush is wasting on the African AIDS campaign? We might as well put that in a pile and light a match. I guess as long as there might be sex or abortions or deviants involved, you liberal bastards think no amount of money is enough.

Your traitorous poster boy Clinton told an audience in Mexico last week that the US will not be the world's greatest power in a few years. Like the son of a whore that he is, he did everything in his power while in office to make sure that could be a possibility.

You liberals are nothing but whining, sniveling pussies. Whether you realize it or not complaining about this is making the Democrats look very bad and will turn more of the public away from them.

Henry Waxman is a little bitch just like you and they have never made an aviator helmet that could fit over Robert Byrd’s KKK white hat.

I think you and the Democrats are going to have a hard time convincing the vast majority of the American people that this visit to honor the troops was anything but that. It costs tens of thousands of dollars everytime the Prez takes off in Air Force One, but Clinton broke all Presidential records for jetting around in AF1. And as far as this "stunt" costing a cool million bucks, I've heard such honest politicians as Maxine Waters :rolleyes: quote the same figure in this manner. "Some analysts say that this stunt may have cost the taxpayers up to one million dollars." The Defense department, (who would have a much better grasp on the costs) says it was far less than that. And it really doesn't matter to a huge majority of Americans who thought that it was very appropriate for the President to honor the brave men and women of our armed forces.

I guess you anti-Bush types have no substantive arguments left so you have to resort to this kind of petty bullshit? Bush has got the Dems in a panic. He has outSMARTED the Dems at every turn. YES, he outsmarted the very people who claim he's a dolt. What does that tell you?

As far as it being risky, I'd agree that the helicopter ride is far more dangerous. As far as thanking the troops dockside, Yeah... Instead of focusing on your families and friends, I want you to focus on ME, the president. Hmmm, sounds like something Clinton would have done.

I knew it wouldn't be long before you'd pipe in with your conserative propaganda bullshit, and not even good propaganda at that. Focus now Madman, F-O-C-U-S...and wipe the foam from your mouth. This thread is about a risky shameless photo op on Bush's part, not about your hatered of Clinton.

republicans were slashing the military budget and closing bases BEFORE Clinton took office.

And Bush jr. was selling rooms at the governers mansion in Texas.

Yes, Iraqi's killed by technology (chemical weapons) sold to Sadaam by a republican administration.

Why am I not suprised by your xenophobic and racist remarks? What's wrong with trying to save the millions of people in Africa? Should we just sit back and watch the Pope just tell them to abstain? Actually, I'm suprised Bush is even attempting this, definitly something you don't hear about coming from republican's.

:rolleyes:

Just for the record there is a scheduled BRAC for 05....That is a Base Realignment and Closure.

I understand. I should rephrase that, I didnt mean it to say that there is no danger or that it was easy in any way. I meant it in the context that by % it is probably safer than driving in this case.

Plus I'll bet that these sailors would rather it have been out at sea then at the docks where they want to see thier families and could care less about this Politician keeping them from it. Ill bet that was a factor in the decision as well.

Plus I'll bet that these sailors would rather it have been out at sea then at the docks where they want to see thier families and could care less about this Politician keeping them from it. Ill bet that was a factor in the decision as well.[/QB][/QUOTE]

That is hitting the nail on the head. There is a saying that was very previlent when I was in and it is scratched on every head wall on my 2 ships it is.......FTN

I definitly agree about the wanting to see their families part. While the aircraft carrier was at sea, Bush had himself a captive audience. If I were at sea for that long, the first thing I'd want to see is my family, not a glory hound President looking for a photo op. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I feel that there should NOT have been as much upstaging from Bush and his stupid stunt, instead he should have just focused purely on praising the brave troops who did such a great job.

"Yes, Mr. President. We believe the carrier is close enough for you to land. There is a chance we can make it by helicopter."

That Cheney definitly IS calling the shots.

Funny nobody complained when Clinton was doing his "World Tour" at the end of his administration.

What does this have to do with the President landing on an aircraft carrier? How does Clinton even factor into this thread? Jeez, you conseratives can't dump the baggage and just can't let it go can you? Clinton has not been President for years now, get over it.

:rolleyes:

What the hell is so racist and xenophobic about what I said? Is that all you sleazy socialists can say when someone speaks the truth? A little abstention and self control over there would go a long way in solving their problems. Not the money of hard working American taxpayers to line the pockets of corrupt bureaucrats and dictators. But wait, I forgot... there isn't a deviant or rapist that you people don't support.

You are the one who brought your hero Clinton into the mix or did you miss where I quoted you?

You liberal slime complaining about Bush landing on the carrier really shows how desperate you are for any issue to complain about. Are you that jealous? Could it be that you Dems have a bunch of pussies running for the job now who don't have a chance in hell? All you slime hate the military and you hate the fact that we have a president who the military likes. The military would have been happy to shoot the last president themselves.

Liberal slime like you are just pissed that Bush was right. You wanted the war to go bad so you could rub your dirty tampons in everyones face until the next election.

The story below could have been written by you. It fits you to a tee. Both of you are whining little bitches who hate George Bush.

http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opini.../ixopinion.html

You call this statement truth? You only know conservative propaganda and hate, hate for anyone who thinks outside the box.

No that was mbflyerfan who first brought up Clinton, not me. Are you wearing your bifocals today?

I just love how you keep calling me a Democrate, your memory's not too good is it? I've wrote many times that I'm a registered Independant...HELLO!

You're reading WAY too much from this thread. And I see since you have no good arguments to defend your hero from this latest incident, you just resort to name calling; classic Madman retort.

You are right about my hatered of George W, congrats on getting one right.

Now that's bullshit. I don't care what you are registered as... you tow the Democratic Party line on every single issue. You spit out more of their propaganda then Terry McAuliffe. Even Ted Kennedy would be proud.

It's actually sad that you think you are some kind of free thinker or whatever you call it but you just spit out the usual liberal crap on every single issue...every time.

Your hatred for Bush is well documented. In fact it is so deep rooted and seething that you refuse to acknowledge anything good this administration has done.

Tell the truth... You really wanted the war in Iraq to go bad just to have more to complain about. I think this is true .. and that's really fucked up.

Sean, did you ever serve? I can't remember. I know that when I did, pretty much every soldier I knew, would have loved to see our commander doing the types of jobs that we did... You know the dirty work, grunt work etc... Bush may have taken this opportunity to do a "photo op" but he also honored those men, by showing them that their President was a skilled and accomplished pilot just like a lot of them.... It is a major morale boost to see your leader doing your job.....

I think you know the answer to that. A guy who is as scared of guns and uniforms as him.

Can you picture him with a weapon in his hand? The only magazine he could change is replacing the batteries in his vibrator.

No I don't tow the Democratic Party line, I just hate republican exstremists. The funny thing is if you acutally left fantasy land for once, and read my posts, you would have read statements like:

I am for the death penalty

I am anti-drug

I am for marrage

I love this country, and hate communism

You bet your ass I'm a free thinker, I question EVERYONE before I pick a side, and I don't trust too many people.

Still waiting for the good. All I've seen so far is a man with his hands tied by the Christian Coalition hell bent on reversing Wade vs Roe, an economy still in the dumps, no WMD, and lot's of Democratic bashing. SHOW ME THE MONEY!

No I'll tell you what's really fucked up. What's really fucked up is how you pull slanderous remarks like these out of your ass. I have never made statements like that, and by making these false accusations, you only prove the case that you don't have all your oars in the water.

:rolleyes:

Do you have any clue what "well documented" means? Apparently not. At best you could inaccurately infer that Sean hates President Bush based on posts scattered across this internet BB. I hate to shock you, but outside of your little world, that doesn't mean: "well documented."

Is it true? Is ignorance really bliss? I figure if there's anyone in the world who knows the answer to that question, it's you.

Yoo hoo, Madman, down here, F-O-C-U-S now. Again, I've never stated that I was against guns. I am FOR gun control, and against military weapons in the hands of average citizens. The statement about uniforms, well I have no clue where the fuck that came from (madmans world maybe). I'll tell you though, your remark about the vibrator, your the expert in that area since you prefer the company of men.

Samueul,

No I've never served. The closest I ever got was registering for selective service when I was 18.

Madman,

Does not serving in the military, or not owning a hand gun (I was on the rifle team in high school) make a person less of a man?

Well, the cost of operating the jet he flew in on is apparently $7 an hour more than the chopper. What a giant waste of money. :rolleyes:

Democrats bitching about wasting taxpayers money is the pot calling the kettle black. That is all they ever do.

Clinton made a little trip after Bosnia to a carrier. His aides stole every trinket off of the ship they could get their hands on. He made that ship be delayed, and it caused them to have to sail through a giant storm, that ended up causing millions of dollars of damage to the ships. Some of them were in dry dock for repairs in Europe for months. This is a desperate attempt to make the President look bad, and to most of us, it looks pretty stupid.

Here is another subject for the liberals to chew on. Berkley is refusing to admit any new Asian students in because of SARS. They say it is to expensive to screen them, and they are not sure if they can anyway. So they are just not going to admit them. Wow! That sounds just like the racial profiling conservatives wanted after 911. The liberals comdemned it as racist. Just an example of liberal hypocrasy.

Gotta side with my Texas brother on the Berzekley
statement. I live up there for a while and hated those tree huggin, utopians.

I got news for you Captain Literal ... By his numerous posts ranting against Bush on this board my use of the term "well documented" was correct in the context in which it was used.

Now you are an English major or something? I think you need some courses in English. These college Spanish courses are clouding your brain.

Go back to your tricycle board.

Piloting an aircraft, of any kind, is a kick in the pants.

If I was Bush, I'd fly every fucking chance I could get. I wonder who he has to supply with drugs to get a chance to fly Air Force One?

One of these days, I'll finish my private license . . .

I read your posts. I know you are for the death penalty. In fact you love to kill people. Especially when they are helpless and still in the womb.

As for marraige.. I know you support that. Two men or two woman... hey let's even let them adopt some kids!

You do a lot of complaining about the country for a guy who loves it.

I'm not so sure you hate communism. This is suspect. You have definitely voiced support for many socialist type ideals and programs.

Like I said you tow the standard Democratic platform on almost every issue. The problem is you don't see it. The death penalty for adults as you claim is the only deviation from the platform.

And you claim you don't tow the liberal line with that last statement? God help we have a leader who is not an atheist.

So Bush has done nothing good. What about the war on terror? What about the thousands of terrorists arrested and cells shut down? What about all the charities and organizations with assets frozen and shut down? What about destroying two terrorist supporting regimes? This admin has done a lot more than any scum sucking liberal you support would ever do.

WMD's... The war is only over 3 weeks. How much fucking time do you liberals give them? What would be satisfactory to you? You sound like a cry baby who needs instant gratification.

All you liberals were screaming "give the inspectors more time" "give the UN another 6 months"... That's all we heard leading up to the war. Now the war is over a few weeks and you cry babies are demanding WMD's already. That is beyond fucked up.

Fuck You. You are no patriot. You would put your political ideals before the good of this country any day. I stand by my statement. People like you were hoping the war would go bad and a lot of soldiers would die just so the president would look bad. All because you don't like him.

The story is......this is a story? Liberal media! ...what a joke.

Tailhook landing........HELL YEAH!
Late? I knew a week before the carrier was in San Diego what time it would be here and when he would be here....I was bummed, cuz I had to work. Not late at all. The troops on the ship were thrilled (from the FIRST HAND discussions I've had and heard)

Hell yeah its a photo op....and a well earned one at that.

Your "news" source seems like the crying whinning idiots that they are. Why not e-mail the source and tell them to do some real reporting. I mean they actually took the time to PRINT that they thought the heli was too far out and in reality it was not? I'm sure there are things in the world way more important than that space filling waste of ink and paper (you environmentalists should jump all over the paper for that....the trees that gave their lives for a non-statement?)

Really? What's wrong with my English? This should be good coming from the Hooked on Phonics poster boy.

Is that the best you can do?

Do you have anything to add to Sean's liberal rant thread claiming Bush is a glory hound .. or as usual did you just pop in to check the grammar and do spell checks?

Go back to your tricycle board. I think someone is posting a question about fish oil supplements or something.

By the way... WTF kind of board are you running over there? You're a friggin DEVIANT!

http://www.feedforspeed.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=161&s=6f36cf3bb0d54b 6299dace5167cbbc9a

It's my right, isn't it?

Like what, gun control, curbs on big business (can you say Enron, Cheney can), improving the public school system instead of vouchers? What's wrong with these?

I bet you don't see the humor in this statement...

You conservatives with your same lame argument that if Gore was elected (not appointed like Bush), none of these anti-terrorist plans would have gone through, BULLSHIT. No President would have sat on their ass and done nothing after 9/11. YOU HAVE NO PROOF!

It's been closer to 4 weeks now, and still nothing. It's great and all that Sadaam is gone, and Iraq can start a new, but the main reason the U.S. had for starting this war was WMD and it's threat to America. The military took Bagdad in 16 day's, where's the threat to America in that? I hope we do find WMD for the sake of the 138 servicemen that died for the cause.

Now this is where you lost me. No patriot? Wanting U.S. soldiers do die so Bush looks bad? You ARE a fucking loon aren't you. Stop waving the flag everytime you post, because your not very good at it; all you can do is blindly hide behind it.

:rolleyes:

You just described a step closer to socialism.

We need less gun control. We don't need government strangling big business. We need the government to back out of the public education business. It's not working and it's a black hole money pit.

You want big government controlling everything don't you? You forgot to mention universal healthcare.

Big government in control is socialism. Limited government and free market is capitalism. Capitalism is the only way for all individuals to have the oppurtunity to thrive and succeed.

And yes... Al Gore would not have done a miniscule fraction of what Bush has done in the war on terror. Neither would any of the pukes running for president on the Dem side and you know it. The charities and terrorist cells would still be in business. Who knows.. Al Gore in his liberal madness would have required all federal employees to buy a copy of the Koran. That's how fucked up the liberals are. Can't profile or offend anyone... even if they want to kill us.

Uh, Bush was elected just like every other president this great nation has had, by winning the electoral college. Sad news for the libs though, there could be a clean sweep in '02.

Like we need another Columbine or a D.C. sniper. Nothing wrong with 100% traceability, we already have it for other dangerous products

Can you say Enron or WorldCom? You're more of an idiot than I thought if you put your full trust in the CEO's of this country



I hope someday you're on the receiving end of having no health coverage (like the other 8 million Americans), and see how you like it. You're a selfish puke

You really believe this, don't you? Perhaps if you went on to Jr. college after receiving your GED you would have learned a thing or two about economics

Back in fantasy land, huh? Kerry served, and so did Gore, did you?

If Sean's only concern was hatred for Bush, surely he would be pleased to see the man do anything that increases his chance of a painful death.

You completely lifted that last part from Sean Hannity's radio show yesterday.

How originial.

So because of a handful of corrupt execs we change the whole structure of business in America. Is that what you are saying? That was more the fault of declining morals and ethics in America. It's not an indictment of all corporations as a whole.

Most companies are run by honest people. They are not all corrupt. As a matter of fact most Americans are employed by corporations. Many corporations have done good things for humanity. More so than any socialist government.

Only someone who is corrupt and morally bankrupt himself would think everyone else is corrupt. And yes... I would trust a corporation over some socialist government bureaucrat any day of the week. You reveal a heavy anti-capitalist slant that would indicate strong communist tendencies. Interesting how the layers peel back...

So everyone who does not support socialized medicine is a selfish puke? And you liberals never resort to name calling? Why should the government mandate for 100% of the population a need that is required for only a small percentage? Most Americans are covered through the evil corporations they work for. Why should they pay burdensome taxes to cover something they already have?

Let's hear your economic theories there Karl Marx. Please explain what the evil capitalism and benevolent big government socialism is in your view. I'm dying for your explanation.

Nice try lemsip. Sean's hatred for Bush is not to wish him death. I am convinced he wished for the war to go bad to cause him irreversible political damage. That is even worse. All the radical libs like him were hoping the same thing. Maybe even you. That's what the whole aircraft thing is about. They hate him succeeding in anything.

You're a socialist too aren't you?

Haven't listened to Hannity in a while. If he did say it more power to him.

I actually heard it on Curtis and Kuby this morning and thought it was funny. It fit the situation so I used it. You seem to like Hannity huh?

Health care coverage in Canada seems to be doing pretty well.... :rolleyes:

I wonder where Sean is employed?

GPCBiotech or Amitof Biotech how about Marine Biotech?

If you're the standard of normal by which deviancy is judged... oh hell yes, I'm a deviant!

More than a handful, and you know it. Without government regulations, corperations would get away with as much as they could.

So regulations safeguarding the public wouldn't effect them then, right?

What cereal box did you read that cheesy statement?

At least I have layers. Your hatered is right out in plain sight, along with your delusions

And you don't?



Well if it's such a small percentage, it shouldn't be an issue helping them out then, right?

The words may be too big for you to understand. If you went to a decent school, instead of learning everything you know from the internet, you'd understand the workings of other ideologies besides capitalism. By the way, you still haven't answered the question of if you served or not. Gore and Kerry signed up for their stints in Vietnam, how about yourself tough guy? I'd REALLY love to hear that you didn't serve, yet you make fun of Kerry and Gore about being deviant cowards.

Used to be, but you can't really renationalise industries, so socialism is outdated. Not too keen on big government, but the absence of big goverment leads to government by big business. At least big govermnent some degree of accountability.

No I was not in the military. You know my background. We've covered that many times before.

I never said Kerry was a coward. I said he was a liberal puke. He was also an idiot for throwing his medals away at an antiwar protest when he returned home from Vietnam.

So as usual you are not going to explain your marxist views on capitalism and the big government socialist utopia people like you want to force on the rest of us. Just more insults calling all who oppose you uneducated.

You are such a classic stereotyped liberal and you don't even know it. Or won't admit it.

EDIT: Even Lemsip says socialism sucks. He is from Europe. Socialism is killing them. You should heed his advice.

Why not?

I don't know your background . . .

If normal for you is hosting a message board with pictures of naked guys on bikes... I don't know what to say. I guess it kind of explains the color coordinated speedo outfit.

Big business is accountable to it's shareholders. Anyone can buy shares unless its a privately held company, but last time I checked, most "Big businesses" were publicly traded. At least business is restrained by laws and regulations. The government on the other hand likes to exempt itself from many of those rules. Big government is worse than big business... Big business can't throw you in jail if you resist or disagree with it's policies.

Sean, you and NY Madam seem to have such a congenial repoire. I'm sorry that Madam dragged you down the low road so soon in the thread, I would've enjoyed tearing your arguements apart.

Ohhh I love good entertainment in the afternoon.

Weren't in the military, huh? That's good to know. I'll remind you of this everytime you call a Democrate who has served in the military a coward.

Why, because he thought the Vietnam war was an unjust war that the U.S. went into with one hand tied behinds it's back? How many U.S. servicemen died in that war, over 56,000? Kerry and Gore were there, you weren't, so what the fuck do you know?

As usual? I think this is one of the first times I've brought up this subject. Are you saying that capitalism is perfect? Hate to burst your bubble, but the form of capitalism we have here in this country is not as Democratic as you think it is. Can't vote in a company if you aren't a shareholder. Another thing about capitalism, it's all about greed. Greed enough to fuck it's employees everywhich way it can (including moving jobs to Mexico), and fucking the country it does business in (offshore accounts to avoid taxes).

What does military service have to do with criticizing socialist scum. When I was 20, I was in the police academy. I have no doubt if I didn't have a good list number I probably would have went in the service for a few years. I was fed up with school.

What were you doing when you were twenty? I'm sure you were having some kind of circle jerk with your marxist frat buddies.

Yeah, I know. The war a very corrupt Democrat escalated for his own purposes.

It's not perfect but there is nothing better.

Capitalism is not democracy. The republic is. If you don't own stock in a company you have absolutely no business saying anything how it is run.

I guess in your mind the collective should make all decisions.

It's not based on greed. It's about making a success of yourself. It's about choice. It's about competition. What is socialism about? Some government choosing everything for you. Telling you how to live, limiting choice. Extending intrusive control over peoples lives.

You sound like you would be happier in the old Soviet Union. Maybe you should go to Russia. You never know, communism may come back one day. You sound ready for it. How about Red China? Can't be any greed over there right? Maybe that's your workers paradise.

"Don't you think a tailhook landing on an aircraft carrier is more risky than a helicopter landing? Did you notice that Bush LEFT in a helicopter?"

How many helicopter crashes occurred in Operation Iraqi Freedom?

Perhaps...but it wasn't a Dem who started to secretly bomb another country.

I cant find a place to rent independent films. I cant listen to non-commercial music on FM radio. I can't get independent news on terrestrial TV and if I want any kind of compatibility I have to use MS windows on my computer.

Why ? because the freedom of competition allows one company to dominate a market with their generic crap. On paper we have freedom of choice, but the absence of any control of the market means the lowest common denominator puts everyone else out of business and you are left with crap.

Obviously these are not majorly important matters, but they are examples of where freedom of choice is an illusion.

I am not suggesting a socialist state or anything, but it is funny how much xoc members like to complain about clear channel communications, when the market dominance held by that company is the epitome of free market economics and therefore the pinacle of everything American.

True. And I couldn't sum up the market as eloquently as you, or as a Floridian lyricist:

Well you can’t turn him into a company man
You can’t turn him into a whore
And the boys upstairs just don’t understand anymore
Well the top brass don’t like him talking so much
And he won’t play what they say to play
And he don’t want to change what don’t need to change
And there goes the last DJ
Who plays what he wants to play
And says what he wants to say
Hey, hey, hey
And there goes your freedom of choice
There goes the last human voice
There goes the last DJ
Well some folks say they’re gonna hang him so high
Because you just can’t do what he did
There’s some things you just can’t put in the minds of those kids
As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see
How much you’ll pay for what you used to get for free
And there goes the last DJ
Who plays what he wants to play
And says what he wants to say
Hey, hey, hey
And there goes your freedom of choice
There goes the last human voice
And there goes the last DJ

(Instrumental break)

Well he got him a station down in Mexico
And sometimes it will kinda come in
And I’ll bust a move and remember how it was back then
There goes the last DJ
Who plays what he wants to play
And says what he wants to say
Hey, hey, hey
And there goes your freedom of choice
There goes the last human voice
And there goes the last DJ

You must live in the boondocks. Every blockbuster and Hollywood around here has an indie film section (as well as a foreign film section). You could also do the Netflix route.

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I cant listen to non-commercial music on FM radio.

Sure you can. Almost all colleges have them (granted, they are VERY low power.

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I can't get independent news on terrestrial TV and if I want any kind of compatibility I have to use MS windows on my computer.

That depends on what you consider "independent." Is it "independent" when it's off-beat news? Or just not corporate owned?

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Why ? because the freedom of competition allows one company to dominate a market with their generic crap. On paper we have freedom of choice, but the absence of any control of the market means the lowest common denominator puts everyone else out of business and you are left with crap.

Where you live has a big bearing on that. Here in DC, there are choices. Out in Winchester, VA, there aren't.

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Obviously these are not majorly important matters, but they are examples of where freedom of choice is an illusion.

I am not suggesting a socialist state or anything, but it is funny how much xoc members like to complain about clear channel communications, when the market dominance held by that company is the epitome of free market economics and therefore the pinacle of everything American.

It's just a matter of searching it out. And to me, Clear Channel is on the verge of something that should be broken up. 1200 stations in all fifty states, covering over 50% of the audience (this used to be illegal).

Try here, at least on the computer.

Cool modern rock station from Atlantic City

Don't try to deflect the issue now, you've called many a Democrate here a deviant liberal coward. Gore or Kerry have done more in their lives than you ever will do.

Fed up with school because you couldn't hack it, or that you couldn't handle the other ideologies this diverse world of our's has to offer.

I was learning how to use big words, you know ones with more than 6 letters. Better to be at a university actually learning something and planning your future, than to be pissing into gas tanks with your drunk friends.

I beg to differ. If the environment is adversely affected or taxes aren't paid, this effects EVERYONE in the community (Higher instances of sickness, or lowered revenue for schools, policemen and firemen).

There's those words again, you know, the ones you base all your arguments on: "I guess". You don't know jack when it comes to others, all you know is "Madmans World", a world of paranoia and hate.

It's like listening to a dam commerical for big business, WAKE UP. Have you ever worked at a large company before, I've worked at two, what the hell do you know about the inner workings of a large company? There's many "company people" out there working their asses off just to get by, and would love to go to school to better themselves, but can't afford to. Yet you were "fed up" with it, please. Sounds like you're very lucky financially to be where you are, not everyone without a college degree gets a fat state pension with benefits like you do. You sound like an ungrateful selfish prick to me.

Ah...nevermind, just go back to the soap opera that is your life.

:rolleyes:

Why look... It's Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy in a custom made flight suit shortly after he took a flight on an F-16. Hmmm. I think there should be an investigation. He's wasting taxpayer money. Where the hell is that hypocritical bitch Maxine Waters?

Everybody and their grandmother has flown in an F-16 (republicans and Democrates alike). Besides, F-16's don't land on aircraft carriers, F-18's do.

The point is, it is a Democrat dressed in 'the uniform of a warrior'. :rolleyes:

Are you saying dems can be that? Tell that to Kerry or JFK. :p

Good point Mobycat! What war did Bush Jr. serve in? BZZZZZZZ! (buzzer sounds)...NONE! 10 to 1, "Uniform of the warrior" will be the most popular costume this Halloween...

You both missed the point. That idiot legislator who stirred this up, said that Bush should not have worn the flight suit, because he is not a soldier. The other picture shows a Democrat wearing the same type of suit when he was not a soldier.

I heard this on Neil Boortz radio show. I thought it was pretty funny. I wonder if it's true.

Actually, I'm not so sure you have a choice. I did a video on the CH-53 helicopter with the Marines. When we went up in the craft to do some shooting, we HAD to wear the flight suits. None of us were soldiers.

(Also - flying in a CH-53 is awesome. Especially when you get to sit right at the back with the rear hatch opened, held only in by a strap. Shooting two of them flying all around you up there is cool as shit, too. Also got to play around in the simulator for a quick spell...pretty funny to crash it when you aren't trying to learn it for real. )

That is what I thought. The ex-Klansmen that was spouting off about Bush talked about him wearing the flight suit, and said it was innapropriate. From what you are saying, it sounds like he had to.

Flight suits are made of Nomex a flame retardant material. He would have had to.

Let's cut the crap! Bush is the President of the United States, and he decided where to give the speech. Was it good PR? Yes. Was it a great morale builder for all the troops, not just the ones on the carrier? You bet! Let's get off the President and the cost...bottom line is it was great, and everyone on the carrier appreciated it. Did it delay the arrival at port? No....friends of mine have sons on that carrier and said that the policy is to arrive on time as scheduled for the welcome home festivities. All they would have done is stayed out another day. Too much about the PR and $.........it was a great event and made us proud to be Americans.

Well, if they stayed out another day, it delayed them, didn't it?

I'm not saying it was wrong. On the contrary, I think it was fine for him to do, and everyone on that ship deserved it.

No, he is saying that this wouldve happened anyway.
Buck makes the point the Dems conveniently forgot. The ship docked exactly when it was supposed to. President or no, it wouldve circled out there until Friday NO MATTER WHAT. Keep digging your holes you stupid democrats. (not you Moby, those in office) They cant stand that the President looked good, but they also cant stand that he was welcomed so joyously and obviously looked like he belonged. Not like those military hating democrats.

What's wrong with abstinence? It works 100% of the time.

Nothing's wrong with it. But trying to teach it (and leave everything else out) is irresponsible.

The flight-suit for an F-16 contains air-filled bladders.

During high-G manoeuvers, these bladders inflate, crushing against the thighs, forcing the blood back up into the body to keep the pilot (or passenger) from passing out.

Chances are, the F-16, in a lazy, sweeping turn, can still generate enough G-force to drop an unprepared politician in a heartbeat . . .

S-3 Vikings generate almost no G-force, certainly nothing on par with the Viper. Whether it was the flame-retardant properties of the suit that were the benefits, I don't know. But wearing a flight-suit in an F-16 and in an S-3 Viking are very different concerns . . .

I'll bet the President would have been just fine in a suit. Helicopters can crash and burn, too, but I've never seen a President in a nomex suit on the Presidential helo . . .

I'm fortunate enough to fly in F-16s. The life-support gear, including clothing, is all engineered with purpose, part of which is to keep one alive. I don't even know what type of aircraft Bush flew in. I didn't read it that closely.

Here's what one wears as an F-16 crewmember.

• Flight suit - special material, pockets, velcro, adjustable, zippers working special ways.
• G-suit - the item containing the air bladders that squeeze your thighs and abdomen. Fits very tightly prior to g-activation with zippers and velcro.
• Boots - specially designed with features specific to pilots - won't go into it.
• Gloves - standard, nothing special.
• Harness - heavy, network of nylon-webbed straps and buckles that straps around your body parts, very tightly, and keeps you attached to your seat at five attach points and also to your survival kit, it is the harness for your parachute in the event of emergency egress.
• Skullcap - under the helmet.
• Helmet - incorporates minimal impact protection, incorporates headset and visor, and attachment points for mask and chinstrap.
• Mask - the worst part. Provides air and O2, and reverse breathing modes at altitude. Incorporates the mic. Fits very tightly and is not pleasant to wear.

In this aircraft, these things are not an option. Then there are special things in addition sometimes.
I think Bush's posing is great PR. I like having a leader that presents the image of a crewmember decked out in "warrior gear" on a flight deck, as opposed to the image of a man cheating on his wife, getting a hummer from an intern behind a closed door (which costs the public how much?).

So I hear he landed in an S3. The flight gear he was wearing is all appropriate for that aircraft. He flew in as a crewmember.

In fact, it would have been inappropriate for him to not have that gear.

If he had flown in as a passenger on a helicopter or carrier, then civilian clothes would have been okay.

Yeah. Jump out of one. That's a hoot....

That picture is pretty cool! I don't know if it is supposed to be derogatory or not, but I like it.

I prefer to look at it with pride.

See Byrd doesn't realize that his rambling are costing more tax $$$ then the president's landing. They wern't delayed, and they were happy he was there. My cousin was on that boat. I'd love to see how much of my money Byrd spends on his tantrums.

*Heather drags out her Liberal soapbox and climbs aboard, apologizing for not having seen this thread earlier*

Safety is always an issue. I haven't had a car accident for over two years, but that doesn't mean I don't buckle up.

And a million dollars means a hell of a lot more than $5 to millions of kids who aren't fed well on a daily basis, animals who are abandoned in the streets to die, or to cancer research or stem-cell research or any other sort of "charity".

Jesus Christ, people, ever heard of "priorities"?

Bush can ride in buck-naked on a cactus, for all I care. But there's no reason to waste money on a stunt like that.

Did you read the whole post. It cost $7 more per hour to fly in on the airplane than the chopper.

Ignorance is bliss. :rolleyes:

Yeah, instead lets spend that $7 feeding and sheltering two-bit crack whores who do nothing more than lie on their back and give birth to bastardized children in order to collect more $7. You liberals are the biggest waste of tax dollars going today.

Unlike those $600 toilet seat covers Reagan was buying, eh?

Just kidding. I still don't see what the big deal was with Bush doing it.

This thread is like a dripping faucet...

Do you know why those toilet seats and ashtrays cost so much? There is a legitimate reason you know.

Some sort of anti-stain chromoly design?

Then they would be worth $1000.

They are designed not to shatter. In an explosion they are designed to break into heavy pieces so anyone around them can have a better chance of avoiding a shraptnel (sp?)type wound. The ashtrays and other things of that nature are expensive for the same reason. I guess the materials they need just cost more. Consider yourself OWNED!!! (I am kidding, I just always wanted to say that.) :rolleyes:

So, what exactly are they made of then? Seems to me, the plastic one in my bathroom wouldn't shatter - any kind of blast would just send it flying in one piece (ouch!). The toilet itself is another story.

I had Stage 4 Non-Hodgekins Lymphoma when I was 18 and had a Stem Cell Transplant which cured it. I have no problem with the money spent to fly Bush in.

As for "priorities", I like that you said that there are "animals who are abandoned in the streets to die"! I didn't know that was such a hot issue! I saw a dead deer on the road this morning, perhaps if we gave it $5 dollars it would still be alive!

I tried giving $5 to this stray cat I saw running around the nieghborhood. He said he didnt take "charity". Put his tail up, turned around and walked away. I was like, "well I never". When I got home my other 4 cats and 2 dogs almost threw all my stuff out on the lawn because they somehow knew I was out looking for pussy.