Now MN Democrats want to try and recall our Gov.

I am so sick of this partisan bickering bull shit. Things were nice and quiet around here after Jesse left, Pawlenty seems to be doing a good job, so now the Dem. need to start stirring shit up.

Take your recall and shove it!

Ignorance is bliss.

Find out what is happening here and you just might be singing a different tune.

The recall is great. Politicians might think a bit more now knowing we do have the power to hold them responsible....true democracy in action (no matter what the demo nay sayers spout).

By the way, those are cute tiny numbers quoted in that story. We are talking 35 billion in debt and that number has been questioned now that Arnolds people have been looking at the details. Massive cover ups and confusion lead to suspicion of how we really stand.

Here's what I don't get, and maybe someone can explain it to me.

49% vote to keep Davis. 51% say recall him.

Now, on the next vote, Ahnold wins with 25%. So now Ahnold is governor with 25%, while 49% wanted to keep Davis.

If that's how it's truly working, it's FAR from true democracy in action.

Is that fair? Seems like Davis should have been allowed to have his name on the replacement list. (Or did that get changed?)

So are you saying I'm ignorant?? I don't really care what happens in California. What I care about is that now that Calif. is trying to recall their Gov. every one that isn't perfectly happy with the Gov. of their state (the party that lost in the election) is going to try and get a recall.

Didn't the voters in Califonia just re-elect Davis? Now all of a sudden he isn't good enough? You guys made your bed, now you have to sleep in it.

Here we go again, lets pick on everyone in California again :rolleyes:

Fuck all of ya

Guido,
Here is your topic: "Topic: Why can't you damn Californians keep your shit to yourself!"

You are blaming California for YOUR problems? Grow up and blame YOURSELF and your state for your problems. I'm trying to take care of my state and I don't have the time or inclination to care about MN (although I'd like to visit there one day). So, to quote you: Keep YOUR shit (and your states) to YOURSELF (and your state).

Moby,
You are asking about the process. It is what it is. It isn't easy to do though (if that is the implication). It has been tried 26 times before and has never made it to the ballot. But I'm not clear on your numbers. Where do you get them, please site your source? 49% 51% ....never heard that one before.

If Arnold wins, it would be by simple majority.

The thing about stats is they can be skewed any way you want them.

On a side note: the deficit was officially announced after his second term. People were not pleased with him in the first term, but hey, he's a politician. I could live with him (or so I thought) and so could most people. Then the official annoucement of the deficit and continued driving the state into the ground the day after election for the second term. Stupid games right up to the end.

His most recent attempt to balance the budget? Cut nothing, expand the deficit and increase taxes. By law we must have a balanced budget, so to appear like it is on paper he:
1. Wants indian gaming tribes to volunteerly renegotiate their contracts with the state to increase taxes...1 billion (they aren't goning to do that)
2. Wants all state employees to volunteerly return their pay increases.... 1 billion (do I even need to comment)
3. Assumes the economy to sky rocket and the increase in taxes will supposedly go through the roof...18 billion (can I borrow that crystal ball?)
4. Triple the car tax...? billion (to begin, its an illegal increase)

So, lies to propagate our debt into the future that someone else has to fix.

On another side note: I collected sig's for the recall. It was completely a volunteer effort. Let me tell you, if someone doesn't know about the recall...they don't sign. Most californians are too busy to take the time....unless they are really pissed. I got quite a few of those...shit spewing out of their mouths like Guido here. Then there were the scary ones who drove up and asked who Davis was? What does recall mean? What did he do? ....and they all had driver licenses (scary). Nobody...and I mean NOBODY ever said a word in his defense. Either they knew about him and were pissed or where totally clueless about anything. Maybe thats the 49% you are talking about.

What I mean is, on the first ballot, the recall, say 51% say recall him, and 49% say keep him there. (Just theoretical percentages)

So it goes to a second vote. The second vote has what, some 150 odd people? He's not on that ballot. So let's say Arnold gets 25% of the replacement vote, and that's the winner.

So while 49% originally wanted to keep him, they couldn't vote that way in the second vote, because he's off the ballot. Yet 25% is enough for Arnold to win.

Like I said, I'm not familiar with the intricacies of the system there, but that seems odd to me (regardless of who is in office). They need to fix it so that anyone can be on that ballot, if they have the signatures, even the incumbant.

why would he be on the recall ballot when he is being recalled?

Confidence vote? (Yeah...sounds stupid)

Didn't he try to get on it? Now I suppose that's a way for him to finaggle his way back into office - with so many high profile names, he wouldn't need as big of a percentage.

I really don't think I am spewing shit. I am just upset that if Calif. had not started this recall, the Dems. here in MN would never thought about doing it themselves. The thing that really bothers me, is that they are starting this without having a reason. If our Gov. did do something illegal, then by all means, have a recall vote. Until then, he is innocent until proven guilty. They are just bringing up the recall to sensationalize the issue, and that chaps my ass.

From what you say, your Gov. is trying to skirt the law by keeping the budget un-balanced, so at least you have a reason and proof to recall him.

And if Arnold does win, I hope he does a better job than our former "Actor" gov.!!!

The mean and evil side of me hopes Gary Coleman gets voted in!!

Nahh, we want either Larry Flynt or Mary Carieh the porn actress

If you want to admit it or not CA is sort of the trend setter for everyone else.
I grew up in CA and really had no idea about other states until I decided to move a dozen or so times out of the state.
What I realized that if it happened in CA then eventually they will try it elsewhere.
I mean if you live in WA you gotta notice the heavy CA influence up there with housing costs and totaly liberalizm.
The deal that really hits home is this. SO many people leave CA and basically take those morals with them to other states. Sort of like a slow moving Virus.

Just to set the record straight. My comment was meant to emphasize the passion of the comments coming from their mouths (people didn't hold back a bit, every swear word in the book). You must admit, your opening was passionate!

I wouldn't loose any sleep over a recall in MN. Seems like its being used as thing more than a threat. The reasoning seems weak from that article.

Yes and no. Trend setting in the liberal politics sense. But an example of how to f*up a state in a conservative sense. Trust me, if I wasn't tied to this place, I'd seriously think about the next bus out. I can't leave so...hell...I'm gonna try to help change things. One post at a time (but I'm done for the day ).

Davis is on the recall ballot (as far as I know), so if 49% want to keep him - and they vote, then he gets to stay. Unless Arnold or that Bustamonte dude gets 49.1% of the vote, then Davis is out.

They are reporting that voter registation has increased and that the voter turnout for this recall election should break the records. At least that is a positive result from this chaos.

Another interesting tid bit, Hollywood has been staying very quiet with the whole "Arnold for Gov" stuff. You would think that some of his contacts down there, would be either saying something for or against him.

K.J. , the recall ballot will have two questions.

The first question , although I don't know the exact wording that it will be , will read something like ; Should Governor Grey Davis be recalled?

At that you punch "Yes" or "No".

The second question will read something like ;

If you answered "YES" to the first question than punch the name of the candidate that you chose to be governor or write in the name of your candidate.

If the collective total of votes to question one is "NO" by 51% then the collective total of the results of question two are irrelevant.

If the collective total of votes to question one is greater than 51% then the individual candidate with the majority of votes in question two is the governor.

Davis , thus far has not been able to sucessfully loby any court to get his name on to the question two portion of the ballot. He is still trying and the issue might go all the way to the supreme court.

There is no minimum number of percentage of the votes that has to be gained to be elected in this recall election. The individual with the most votes wins. Period. It is concievable that the next governor of the 5th largest economy in the world could be elected with less than 20% of the total votes cast.

Socal, Even if a person votes "NO", they are still allowed to pick his successor.

The recall vote is supposed to be two separate elections, First the Recall vote, then a month (or so) later, the replacement vote, with the Lt Gov. standing in in the mean time. They combined it into one election to save money. Because of this, even a person that says the don't want Davis recalled, still has the option to decide who should be his replacement.

Edited to add: the courts even ruled just recently that you don't have to vote YES or NO at all and still be able to decide his replacement. This would be similar to the scenario where someone didn't go to the first election, but went to the second.

Ahh , that makes sense about being able to vote for a successor even if you don't vote for recall. But that successor is irrelevant if Davis get's his 51%+ on "NO Recall".

I might have voted to let him keep his job before he started ducking with the DMV renewals and announcing that he was not going to object to allowing illegal immigrants have driver's licenses.

I personally am voting for Peter Ueberoth. The guy turned the historically losing proposition of hosting an Olympics into a financial windfall for L.A and it didn't cost the taxpayers a dime. and he accomplished it stong relationships with business and their financial involvement. Then he was comissioner of baseball. How bad could an ex-comissioner of baseball be?

Although I really wish he didn't come out firing with his crazy tax amnesty plan as his solution for rebuilding the state's economy. His supply side economic theories are a little optimistic to say they least and it's making him look a little nuts.

Okay Mobycat,

I see where you came from. You were referring to Davis' UCLA speach the other day. Here is my take on that comment and how screwed up someone can make a bunch of numbers.

Davis was elected by 49% of 17% of the registured voters in Cal. To turn his stats back on him...his election wasn't democratic...in his democracy example. What a line.

Davis is on the recall ballot. All a voter has to do is vote "NO" to recall Davis and leave the rest blank.... then his ballot is complete. That's for those who want to keep Davis.

It was democratic - it's not his fault that so many people in California (in every state, really) that can vote don't. Using that example, we could easily say the same for Bush.

Regardless.

Say you have 100 people to vote. 49 want Davis to stay. 51 want him gone.

I suppose it could be argued that the recall vote is a "primary" of sorts.

So a "no" on a recall automatically turns into a Davis vote on the second ballot? Or do they still have to punch "Davis" on the second? (No pun intended) Or does that ballot automatically go into the second vote?

Like I said, I'm not familiar at all with the process California has for it. Just wondering.

From what I can tell, Davis is not on the second ballot - he filed a lawsuit to try and get on it.

Now, that may have changed, but I got caught up reading an interesting commentary on the whole thing:

Findlaw.com

According to the Mexifornia Secretary of State web site the recall ballot is as follows:

"It will be in two parts. In the first part, voters will vote for or against the recall. In the second part, the voter may select a replacement candidate. If a majority of the voters vote “yes” on the first question, then the recall is successful, and the replacement candidate who gets the most votes is elected for the unexpired term of office."

That's not too hard to figure out. Though I am sure that the Democrats will sue if Davis loses saying the ballot was too complicated. Which would of course imply that they believe the voters are idiots (they know their constituency). Kind of like the Florida/2000 situation. Maybe they are idiots. Davis was after all re-elected last November. But then again Democrats are masters of voter fraud...so we will see what happens.

I'm still at a loss for why this is important. If 51% want him gone...well he is gone. Democratic isn't it?

Really, its a moot point though. The recall is in action and has proceeded through all the channels and survived the many lawsuits atempting to stop it.

Why is the recall not democratic in your opinion?

no, I agree, it's moot. But what if 25% want Arnold (and he wins with that) but then 75% DON'T want Arnold?

It's all hypothetical, of course. It's a done deal, and Davis has to accept it. Just seems like there's got to be a better way.