I was talking to Branden Burden. I was specifically addressing his brand of leftism.

Do you have some type of complex or something? Do you have a chip on your shoulders?

In some bizarre way you felt because "leftism" was mentioned, it's also directed towards you? That compelled you to your ridiculous tirade.

I think you need to pull your head out of your ass. I was listening. I was listening to Branden's insanity and I responded.

The question seems, were you listening? The answer is obviously no. You prefered to jump in and attack me for my response to his lunacy.

Is that an admission of support for Branden's lunacy and the "leftism" of which it is derived?

Yeah, PDX, are you with us or against us? Are you a welfare-titty-sucking liberal fag-lover pansy, or a right-wing Nationalist Socialist flag-worshipping Christian Crusader?

WELL, WHICH ONE ARE YOU?!?!

CHOOSE, DAMN IT!

HURRY UP!

Fuck off Madman. You are intelligent. Your mind should be beyond this black-and-white world of left and right. PDX has every right to respond to your generalization of "leftists." Don't put him in the same boat as that whack-job Burden either. That's just ludicrous. Give me a break.
Again Madman, I respect your intelligence. You're one of the brightest people on this site. But about you leftist generalizations. It's really old, and I've only been around here four months.

Don't listen to him, Madman...he's on their side. He's kissing your ass to lure you in to his Den of Whacko-ism.

Put him against the wall with the others.

Shahram, your sarcasm kicks ass.

Ok, I'll take these one at a time.

No chips on any shoulders. Complex? No no no, I think you are confused - I have what is known as an opinion.

If you were talking to Branden specifically, I missed that - your post states, "For you people on the left, reality and rational thought is something that was lost a long time ago." How am I supposed to ascertain that you were only referring to Miner Boy over there? By lumping us "lefties" into a single group I assumed you meant anyone who considered themselves to be on the left side of the political spectrum. You've done it in several posts (as lots of people have, on both sides of the political spectrum) and I'm just kind of tired of being grouped with people like Miner Boy, or Frontier (who is obviously on the right, but I agree with him on some things, and lots of lefties have attacked the right on this board).

In general, I consider msyelf to be liberal, thus I took offense to you stating that we're a bunch of people without "rational thought." FYI, I have a lot of views that stray from the left, and I'll defend those views as well. My "ridiculous tirade" wasn't specifically directed towards you, it was directed towards the entire board. You'll notice in my post I said "comments like the one I quoted," not "everything Madman says!"

Look, I know you have some intelligent things to say. In fact, plenty of people here do (Shahram in '08) and that's why I stray from endless threads about tire sizes and MPG. Unlike people like "Off," I like reading your posts because it's obvious you've done some research, and you know what you're talking about.

I just feel that many of these threads turn into World War I style combat. People dig a trench on their side of the political fence, hunker down, then throw grenades at each other. Meanwhile, the fucking illegals are crossing over the fence day and night, and we're too busy with these "left-versus-right" arguments to do anything about it!

Give me a break with that bullshit FlyFishing.

First of all I was correct in what I said about Branden. We both know him from the board long enough to know he is a left wing liberal. He's even admitted it so I've made no assumptions related to him.

I wasn't putting PDX in the same category as Branden. He did however feel the need to jump in with his take on politics in America directed at me. He felt that was more important than the discussion with Branden.

I don't believe in a black-and-white world as you say. I however don't believe everything is an endless shade of gray either, as some would like to have it portrayed.

If I make a generalization that there is very little rational thought on the left, that is my opinion. I'm entitled to that opinion and it wasn't arrived at with just a whim. If someone takes it personally, that is their problem. I'm generally a conservative yet I don't become highly insulted if someone calls me a "right winger" or complains about the right regardless of the various generalizations that may come with that label. If people are too touchy that is their problem. If you're touchy about it, that is your problem.

If your goal is to remove all generalizations from political discussions, that is not going to happen. There are some "generalizations" as you say that are based in hard facts. For example the feelings and attitudes of the left in America and Europe towards Israel.

We were talking about Israel weren't we?

Oh, by the way Fly... Fuck Off...

I had no intention of being sucked into this fray, but oh well.....

Never in my lifetime did I think to see these words used together in the same sentence. I believe this may be a sign of the Amageddon!

The Arabs have been attacking Israel since the Allies carved out a "homeland" for the Jews in 1948. They went from being ruled by the Ottoman Empire, to the British Empire, to having a bunch of displaced foreigners given the keys to their land by outside powers. Personally, I would have been a little pissed myself.

Now it has become the quagmire we have today. Religious zealots fighting a war in the name of their god, against not only the Zionists, but the entire western world.

The middle east has not known true peace.....ever, only occupying powers, dictators, and kings. That is not going to change until the next generations of people are taught tolerance instead of hatred (so not in my lifetime), or everyone gets turned to glass in a nuclear fire.

The US had its hand in the formation of Israel, not out of some righteous need to do right by the Jews, but because none of the the allied powers wanted an influx of millions of Jewish refugees into their respective countries after WWII. So they offered them the "Holy Land" some of them wanted. They just failed to mention that somebody else was living there.

Times change, I realize that, after all our own Manifest Destiny was nothing but a land grab for a growing county. However, I have no desire to fight a war for a spot of land that has no meaning for me whatsoever. Unfotunately, if we just let them fight it out, we still have to deal with whichever side wins. That sure sounds appealing.
You want to call me an "anti-war hippie", or an "anti-semite" then so be it. Your arrogance means nothing to me.

What does mean something to me is the fact that the US has now become the new occupying power in the middle east. No good deed goes unpunished.
I don't believe in Isolationism, but dammit, does the US have to try to be the self-righteous savior to every area of the world that hates us? Spreading peace and democracy worldwide, whether you want it or not. We are the new Roman Empire, and our days of dominance in a world that despises us are numbered.

Shahram, the "Costco Member since 2006" is awesome!

You are pathetic. Madman, Shahram is right. Go medicate yourself. They have places to help people like you.

What you said to Miner Boy was dead on. I thought it was great.

Oh, and by the way, I know plenty of liberal Jews that would disagree with your generalization of all "leftists" feelings in this country about Israel.

Neither, but here's a smilie GIF just for you...

Alright. You consider yourself a liberal. Why would you think the term "leftist" or "leftie" applies to you?

You can be a liberal without being a leftist.

As I stated earlier, there are certain things that are endemic to each side in left vs right political philosophies. However many people don't know or are able to recognize many aspects. Some don't want certain aspects revealed. Many do throw around generalizations.

You just mentioned the illegals. I've seen some people in the past on this board who would have called you a racist for complaining about the illegals. Branden has called us racists in a thread for complaining about illegals.

The difference is I know what the distinctions are. If I make a statement it's rarely if ever a generalization. I'm doing it because I know the aspects that are endemic to the various political trains of thought.

So, getting back on topic... What do you think of those Israeli's?

Well, Bush voiced his support for Israel's actions today while he was visiting Germany. Merkel, however, said that it's up to Hezbollah to defuse the situation. :rolleyes: Yeah, that's going to happen. :rolleyes:
I'm getting a bad feeling about the possibility of a widening war....

Fuck You Fly.

I know plenty of liberal Jews too. I do live in NY after all.

They are liberals, they are not leftists. They don't support the various anti-Israeli campaigns of the American left. One of the biggest is getting every university to divest their financial interests from Israeli companies or other companies doing business with Israel. The left is doing the same thing with municipal pension funds and attempting it with some private funds. That's just one example of the left's love of Israel.

You come here and try to impress into everyone that you're the smartest guy in the world. I would think even a marginally intelligent guy would know the difference between liberals and leftists.

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Groucho Marx

Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than when they are convinced beyond doubt that they are right.
Laurens van der Post

Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right.
H. L. Mencken (1880-1956)

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.
Hubert H. Humphrey

______________________________________________

Moses dragged us for 40 years through the desert to bring us to the one place in the Middle East where there was no oil.
Golda Meir

Oh c'mon now, you're joking right? In this thead alone you've referred to the several million people living around Israel (in adjacent countries) as "bloodthirsty vermin." I call that "generalization."

Yes, I know the difference between "leftists" and liberals, but while the bulk of my views are best described as liberal, some are considered leftist, and others are on the right hand side of the picture (immigration being one, plus I happen to own a few firearms).

Still, the point of my "tirade" wasn't to derail the topic, just to remind people that - political groups aside - most of us happen to have similar goals in life. Compelling discussion rarely ensues comments such as "you people are withouth rational thought." It's human nature to take the defensive, you can't argue with that. I'll make an attempt at deciphering who you're criticizing in the future.

So, back to that topic.

The Israelis, IMO, are welcome to do as they please. The Israeli military is also very advanced (at least from what I've read) and they're more likely to make tactical strikes as opposed to just wiping out an entire city block.

However, I am scared shitless that we're going to get involved military-wise due to our political stance with Israel, and knowing that holy wars are generally pretty brutal, I'm worried that Iraq was only the tip of the iceberg concerning our middle-eastern meddling.

Now that is an assumption on your part. I never said all of them were bloodthirsty vermin. Surely the numerous terrorist groups and some governments are bloodthirsty vermin. Some of the people are bloodthirsty vermin, but certainly not all.

Quote:

Yes, I know the difference between "leftists" and liberals, but while the bulk of my views are best described as liberal, some are considered leftist, and others are on the right hand side of the picture (immigration being one, plus I happen to own a few firearms).

Interesting that you mentioned illegal immigration. The percieved "generalization" is that cracking down on it is a right side issue. That wouldn't be completely accurate. The Wall Street Journal editorial staff loves open borders and illegal immigration. They are percieved to be on the right. Many Republicans like open borders and illegal immigration and they are percieved to be on the right. The thing with that issue there are those on the left and right that support open borders and illegals. However their support is for very different reasons.

Quote:

However, I am scared shitless that we're going to get involved military-wise due to our political stance with Israel, and knowing that holy wars are generally pretty brutal, I'm worried that Iraq was only the tip of the iceberg concerning our middle-eastern meddling.

I don't think we will get involved militarily. At least not with ground troops and not in the area of Israel.

I'm also not sure "holy war" is the best description. Israel doesn't fight for reasons of holy war. They fight for their survival. The other side fights for varied reasons.

C'mon...this comment was PRICELESS!

On this debate, what I find interesting is that most here are all cheering on Israel for wanting to fight back against terrorists in retalliation for their attacks, yet many of these same people have a big issue with the U.S. being in that same region fighting back against terrorists in retalliation for their attacks.

Interesting indeed.

Nonetheless, these threads are good fun.

Should be interesting to see if the jews go all the way or they pull a Bush Senior. fuck let's get it all over with and eliminate hezbollah (fag name for a terror org) and Syria while we are at it. There will be plenty of work for the US servicemen for decades to come that is for sure, you know they are gonna blame the US, I bet Bin Laden is Jerking off right this moment.

You occasionlly need some good "color commentary".

After all, it's been said that this is not the MacNeil-Lehrer News Hour.

Quote:

Nonetheless, these threads are good fun.

Indeed.

NY - where the fuck did I say I hate the Jews? Where? I have no problem with Jewish people, Arabs, or any other religious group or nationality (as previously stated). I don't like the way the government of Israel has handled it's terrorist problems; I feel they have a tendency to go overboard, and as a result I dislike the current Israeli govt., but not the people. That is the problem with you NY, you jump to the most intense conclusions I have ever seen; you go overboard. The funny part is, to me at least, that if you ever needed help on the side of the road, I would offer whatever I could - I have a feeling you would run my ass down without blinking.

To classify an entire region, due to their religious followings, as terrorists or vermin is wrong, and sickens me. I have known so many great Iranians, Saudis, Israelis, and Egyptians I could never support the claim that all people there are blood-thirsty mongrels, like yourself.

I am a crazy liberal, never considered myself a leftist, but I am open to suggestions. Don't lump me in with anyone else, I represent no one. My opinions are just that, my opinions. Your opinions, NY are somehow different; somehow you feel we need to take you seriously, like if we aren't "converting" you aren't trying hard enough. I have know quite a few people like yourself, and have always walked away feeling so sorry for them. One day you will have a massive heart attack, die sad and alone, realizing that 3000+ posts on XOC was not the way to spend your time. Pathetic really.

Lastly, Israel needs to cool down, just like NY. Take a chill pill, smoke a bowl, but for God sakes man I am worried about the stress from all of this puts on that tiny, black heart of yours.

I think what people on this board are realizing is that its all bullshit.

Yes all of it.

Every issue is spun so fucking retarded that its becomes meaningless.

The crazies are in charge of the political parties because real people have shit to do.

What complete horseshit. The Jews have been there forever in various amounts and places. They also turned much of what is Israel today into the place it is. They BOUGHT a lot of the land from absentee landowners at outrageous prices, and turned it into livable space. It was desert before they bought it, and made it into something worthwhile. There has never been a Palestinian country, and Palestinians aren't an ethnic group.

These religious zealots actually lived side by side with the Jews until the Brits fucked the whole thing up. They took 80% of the land, turned it into Jordan, put a foreign monarch in charge, and allowed them to kick out all the Jews that lived there. Then they decided the rest should be split between the Jews and 'Palestinians'.

This was well before 1948. The two-state solution came out of the now defunct League of Nations. Of course the Brits put a terrorist in charge of the remaining land, who worked with Hitler to kill as many of them as they could. He planned to set up camps in Israel at some point. He of course was never able to do this, because he ended up having to hide from the hangman's noose in Egypt after WW2.

This monster is viewed as a Palestinian 'national hero', and Arafat called him uncle. So please don't try to feed us this line of Zionist oppression bullshit. We aren't all idiots.

You too are obviously an anti-Semitic piece of garbage. You sure as hell have the talking points down if you aren't.

What region of the world has known 'true peace'? The only established democracy in the area is Israel, yet you blame them for the problems caused by the tyrants.

Again, complete bullshit. Put the Chomsky down and step away from the keyboard.

Yeah, because democratic people defending themselves are the same thing as terrorists who blow themselves up at prayer meetings and restaurants.

Not to sure what arrogance has to do with this really.

Allah al Akbhar! :rolleyes:

Bwahahahahah! What garbage. Bring it hippie. You guys go ahead and team up with the terrorists and let's see who wins. Bring your drums for the tofu potluck!

We were attacked first. Hell we even helped the attackers defend themselves against the Soviet Union, and then they got offended that we kicked an invading tyrant out of Kuwait, never mind that the entire world agreed it was the right thing to do, and decided we were the new enemy. Forget that we actually sacrificed our own lives to defend Muslims in the Middle East and Europe. Kill Whitey!

So you keep on defending them, thankfully the brave Israeli soldiers, and the fighting men of the US Armed Forces will keep on killing them so that you will continue to be able to disparage them from your comfy chair.

Shit, I agree 100%

I hate when that happens.

You know, you wake up one day, turn on the news to see the latest "bullshit in Iraq" story and wham! Look honey, WWIII has started.......

I got an idea. How about we get a group of murderer's to kidnap your family. You may be able to force them to give them back, but instead how about you just sit there and smoke a bowl.
:rolleyes:

You claim you are not a leftist. Yet you have called people racists for wanting to enforce immigration laws. You have endorsed socialistic government policies in other threads. If I'm not mistaken, I think I remember you favoring one world government. Am I wrong?

You come out anti-Israeli in every thread about Israel that I have seen. You are now lying that you only hate the current government but the current government is doing nothing different that past governments haven't done. The Prime Minister has barely been in office long enough for the wallpaper glue in his office to be dry. You hate Israel. That is more than obvious. All you people who hate Israel always claim "I have friends who are Jewish" to hide your hate. That's as regular and predicable as clockwork.

You never, ever criticize the terrorists. You blame Israel for handling their terrorism problems with force. Yet in your insane train of thought it never occurs to you to criticize terrorists for being .... terrorists. In your mind Israel goes overboard. You can never bring yourself to say the terrorists go overboard. You can never bring yourself to the realization that without terrorism, there wouldn't be the activities we are witnessing today in the news.

You are a terrorist sympathizer. A terrorist appeaser. That makes you almost as bad as them.

I also never said all the people over there were bloodthirsty vermin. I didn't classify all of the people over there, so don't put words in my mouth. I explained it in a post above. Go read it.

I also couldn't care less about "converting" anyone, most especially you. I can recognize an exercize in futility when i see it. You have futile all over you.

I appreciate your concern for my health and my posting count. Is 3000 posts in over four years a lot? I don't know.

What have you done in the short time you have been here with your post count? Let's see... One of the first things you did was start a thread asking who has the most dangerous job. Your insecurity about yourself was busting out so you felt you had to proclaim you were some type of a tough guy because you go down into gold mines and sniff the farts of guys who actually do the real work.

You're not a toughguy. You are a leftist. You're a terrorist sympathizer. That makes you lower than any mine they occasionally allow you to play in.

Go ahead. Smoke your bowl. Maybe that is why you see me with a black heart. Maybe the pot smoke has clouded your brain so much, you can't see anything. I'd rather have any color heart than your vacuous brain.