No suprise to anyone that Bush was going to sign this:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-11-05-bush-abortion_x.htm

But we all know this is really just another salvo at Roe vs Wade. What I don't understand is if the Republicans were so sure of themselves here, and knew this legislation was going to be a slam-dunk, why not include the provision "except to protect the health of the mother" or if the fetus in question has serious aliments? It's not like this kind of abortion is common, it happens to be very rare, performed only 0.5% of the time.

http://www.crlp.org/pr_98_1210abstats.html

Anything to appease the Christian Coalition, right? I wonder how many millions will be spent on defending/appealing this law? I personally don't feel that abortion should be used as a means of birth control, but if birth control was accepted by more people (i.e Catholic Church), wouldn't the number of abortions drop? Isn't better to stop life from starting rather than to kill it midstream?

All I can say is if you were sick of hearing about this subject before, just you wait, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Wow, I can't think of anything I'd rather read about on an Xterra board, please tell me more :rolleyes:

Having lived in Wichita KS during "The Summer of Mercy" in 1991, this is a subject I don't touch with a ten meter cattle prod.

I hear they use those for abortions now...

Why not? You claim to be a liberal and a Christian... I would love to hear you try to spin this.

BTW, is this headed anywhere but the ALR?

Ok, you asked...

Yes I am a liberal, but I'm against abortion in all cases except rape, incest, and the life of the mother.

And that's all I'm saying on the subject...unless of course, you provoke me.

Wow, we could have a huge talk about that and I bet you change your mind to be completely against it... But I won't bother the rest of the XOC family with that. However, since you admitted that, I'll admit that I'm a conservative, but against the death penalty. You know, don't want you to feel totally alone with your admitting stuff.

ok, well, one last comment...then we won't bother the kind people of this board...

Yeah, it was my abortion stance that changed my mind on the death penalty. If I could be against one form of killing, how could I be for the other? So, anti-death penalty here too!

But of course, that's what makes me a liberal. HAHA

Gee, I'm a fiscal conservative, bordering on radical, but I believe in abortions for stupid would-be parents and sterilization of those who pull "Darwin Award" like stunts.

The ALR... Are we there yet?

You know, if the subject matter is controversial and people are expressing opinions without making personal attacks and using profanity it is still Club House material. I think, as adults, we should be able to keep most of these political and social topics out of the ALR.

You smell like rotting cheese, you jackass . . .

To the ALR we go, to the ALR we go, hi-ho the derry-oh, to the ALR we go . . .

I hope abortion is done away with, I hold stock with a coathanger manufacture.

*yawn*

Duh! Of course he signed it. He has supported it since the beginning of the bill. :rolleyes:

Don't be an idiot. This has nothing to do with RVW. It has to do with abolishing a worthless brutal procedure that has no medical necessity. The guy that came up with the procedure testified in the hearings that there is no reason to use it. The law does allow for it to be used if the mother is going to die, and there is no other way to help her, just in case. The bit the Dems wanted would have made the law worthless, because pregnancy is always a risk to a woman's health.

Blah, Blah, Blah. This law is a good law. I believe in a woman's right to choose. This procedure has no place in that though. It is disgusting, and as everyone in the hearings testified, there is no real reason that it has to be done.

They basically shove forceps up inside the woman, and turn the baby around so that it is coming out feet first. This part of the procedure is quite dangerous to the woman's health. Once they pull the legs out, they stop when the head is just barely still in there. They then take scissors, poke a hole in the back of the baby's head, and suck it's brains out to kill it.

You know Brent, if you don't care about an issue as big as this one you are an idiot. I understand why don't care about things like the Peterson or Bryant case, but come on. This is an important issue. I guess your real just post whoring as usual.

Hey, I think your lover is calling you on another thread, Troll.


"I'm gonna wuv you till yo' sterile."

OH BABY!

Let's not make this a Dems/Repug's issue. I'm a Democrat, and I'm against abortion. What do you say to me?

As someone who just recently dealt with the whole abortion issue, I am completely pro choice... I do not agree with crackwhores being impregnated and using this as a means of birth control, but I also do not agree with said crackwhore having another crack baby... However, I had never heard of this practice requiring a dr. to "puncture the fetus' skull"... this is just sick... and what is the point? If you cannot decide to have this done in the first trimester, then you need to have the kid and put it up for adoption... my thoughts on this matter...

p.s. why the hell is this here with a bunch of men commenting on it? Doesn't this belong on www.knittingforums.com ?

Your link doesn't work.

To a lot of people, it doesn't matter if it's a good law... if a law goes down that limits abortion options, it's a loss for the pro-choicers.

It's just like gun control... a given control law may make sense - but passing it is a win for the anti gun group and a loss for the pro gun group.

Personally, I'm at the other end of the spectrum from WilMac... I'm a pro-choice conservative Christian (How is that possible, you ask? My thoughts: It's not the US Govt's business, it's not MY business, and it's not YOUR business... it's the pregnant lady's business and God's business... so let the two of THEM sort it out).

Didn't want to post on this topic again, but that was some funny shit.

You actually could compare this law very well to gun laws.

Pro-choice groups will say this is chipping away at Roe v. Wade. Some conservatives will say it's not. Other conservatives will say yes, it is - they want abortion completely gone.

Gun-rights groups will say automatic weapon bans are the first step toward banning all guns. Some liberals will say it's not. Other liberals will say yes, it is - they want guns completely gone.

Regardless...

It sure didn\'t take long to block

Congrats! You're the first person to start with the name calling. If you don't think this is just another stepping stone to altimately reverse Wade vs Roe, you're an even bigger idiot.

Quote:

It has to do with abolishing a worthless brutal procedure that has no medical necessity.

Then why do most doctors concider this type of an abortion medically accepted?

"Partial-birth abortion" is a term concocted by the National Right to Life Committee and other anti-abortion lobbying groups. It is not a medical term, nor does it refer to an actual medical procedure."

Quote:

The law does allow for it to be used if the mother is going to die, and there is no other way to help her, just in case. The bit the Dems wanted would have made the law worthless, because pregnancy is always a risk to a woman's health.

No, exemtion if the mother's health is at risk, nor if the fetus is severly abnormal is not part of the ban. Read it again.

Quote:

Blah, Blah, Blah. This law is a good law. I believe in a woman's right to choose. This procedure has no place in that though. It is disgusting, and as everyone in the hearings testified, there is no real reason that it has to be done.

Who's everybody? Those aligned with the Christian right? How about some names?

Quote:

They basically shove forceps up inside the woman, and turn the baby around so that it is coming out feet first. This part of the procedure is quite dangerous to the woman's health. Once they pull the legs out, they stop when the head is just barely still in there. They then take scissors, poke a hole in the back of the baby's head, and suck it's brains out to kill it.

Pro-life propaganda, plain and simple. In 1996, only 0.5% of these D&X procedures were performed, thats only 650 of the 1.37 million abortions that were performed. I wish I had the stats, but I wonder out of those 650, how many were performed on brain dead fetuses or if the mothers life was at risk? I highly doubt that most were performed as a means of birth control. If the fetus is brain dead, and the mothers health is at stake, what would you do?

"Anti-choice legislators promoted bans they publicly claim to be about "D&X" but the laws are vague, never defining the procedure. Abortion opponents latched onto graphic and misleading imagery of "D&X" abortions in a massive effort to con the public into supporting an abortion ban."

I tell you what, I will read the new law tonight and see what it says. I called you an idiot to help get this moved to the ALR were it belongs.

Back to the RVW bit. I did see a quote from some Republican saying that getting rid of abortion completely is not really an option. Our society would not allow it.