After reading this, what do you guys think? Guns in the house or no? Gun locks?

I personally think that guns in the house are O.K. as long as there's an appropriate gun lock on there and there's NO way kinds can get a hold of they, as in the key is with the owner at all times.

Still outrageous, even though no one got hurt this time.

The boy was hit in the right thigh or hip at 8:23 a.m. at a home in the 2000 block of South Drake Avenue, police News Affairs Officer Patrice Harper said.

Police said the children were in the care of a baby sitter when the incident happened in a bedroom of the house. A friend of the baby sitter and her son were also in the home. The son was taken into custody for questioning, NBC5's Kim Vatis reported.

"We have not recovered a weapon. We are still looking for that. We do have a suspect in custody who may know the whereabouts of the weapon," Capt. Roberto Zavata said.

The 3-year-old boy did not suffer life-threatening injuries in the shooting, officials said. The bullet wound was more of a graze, and the bullet did not lodge inside his body, Vatis reported.

"This guy is not supposed to have guns in the house," said Frederico Alvarado, a relative of the baby sitter.

Police went door-to-door looking for the family of the 3-year-old boy. They believe he lives in the neighborhood, Vatis reported.

The 2-year-old's mother, who was at work at the time of the incident, arrived at the home while police were investigating.

Police said the two children did not appear to be related.

"I think it's a shame that they would have guns where kids can get ahold of them. They should be put away out of the children's reach," neighbor Patricia Mundinger said.

Link

Tough call.

My opinion... children can be taught to respect firearms, but should never be trusted around them. (sorta like Reagan's adage.. trust but verify) Locking firearms is always a good idea, regardless of whether or not you have kids.

Personally, I think when/if we have kids, the guns will go the next day.

What is the gun storage law in the US?

The law here in Canada forces you to either :

1. Have the gun locked or rendered inoperable with ammunition locked out of sighted.
2. Have the gun and ammo locked in a gun safe.

And the owner is responsible of what happens to/with his guns.

I chose option #2 (200$ at costco for the safe).

Nicolas.

Chronos, it varies by state. However, most have no storage requirement. That's the beauty of the 2nd ammendment. "Keep yer damn hands off my guns!"

If you won't let your kids play in traffic, why leave guns unlocked? Point is, stuff like this is bound to happen to irresponsible people.

Lock for the gun cabinet: $10
Medical fees: $thousands
Fatal accedental gunshot: $?

Damn you're right, it's a tough call.

My children have gone out with me shooting all the time. I have taught them to respect guns, let them know that they are not toys, and that they are not to be touched when I am not around. That said though all of my guns are kept in the safe with the exception of the .45 wich is kept on top of the headboard (Think large mirrored headboard with armoirs on both sides) and out of sight. If someone tries to come into my house uninvited I don't want to have to ask them to wait while I try to find the keys to the safe.

Axle

I have guns in my house. Almost all, but one by my bedside, is locked in a safe. There is no sense in having them ALL locked away, as you might not be able to open the safe in time.

As for kids, I am mixed on that subject. I grew up with shotguns and rifles since I was eight-years old. I was taught right from wrong and that guns were not "toys". The only time I was allowed to use them was for hunting and under adult supervision.

When I was a kid, my father had a .25 caliber semi-auto behind his bed. I never once thought to touch it. You know why? If I did touch it with out him being there my ass would have been beaten with a belt! Fear enough right there. But that doesn't happen today. DYFS would be called and the guns and children would both be taken away.

Parents need to accept responsibility for their child's upbringing and teach them right from wrong.

If I ever get married and have kids I will not get rid of my weapons. No need to. I will teach them how to handle one properly.

IMHO,
Stone

I said it was a tough call regarding whether to own firearms at all (if you have kids), not whether or not to lock them up (that's a given). You shouldn't jump to conclusions so quickly, medistorm.

We're banning handguns altogether in San Francisco.
Prop H

Just another attempt to ban guns. When I grew up in rural Pennsylvania we always had guns in the house; but we were taught gun safety and never touched them! That is what a responsible gun owner does----------teach the family gun safety, part of which is not having them accessible to young children. I guess if you're removing guns from the house you might as well take all the rope, baseball bats, silverware and kitchen knives,................................

My gun is hidden with a cable lock through the barrel. The ammo is in a lock box on the top shelf in our storage room. Buying a Glock soon and before I get it I have to buy a safe (Wifes conditions). Which I have no problem with. Once I have the Glock then I'm taking my concealed carry class to learn the law and how to handle it.

Gun law in the US is a little insane compared to my home country, but I feel better that I have a gun in the house. Even tho it's not there for home protection, it can be loaded and ready within a minute.

2 locked with the ammo hidden and locked seperately. 1 unlocked in a belt holster that is wherever I am. If for some reason it needs to be locked and I don't have one on me...I take it apart, keeping one part in my pocket for safety. That way kids, idiot coworkers/friends can't mess with it and get another hole in their body.

All you guys buy guns just in case of a home invasion. ( Which is not that likely )
I'd rather not have any guns inside the home just in case, just in case my nosey kids want to see what their like. And you all know how kids are nosey, good parenting or not, everyone is curious. I made my way into my dad gun locker, knew not to touch anything, but still had to look on my own, while I was by myself.

And having the owner wear the keys to the lock on himself at all time is not alway an option, think showering, swiming, going for a run, anything. I knew a guy who taught gun safety, he was anal about it. He had 4 different place to hide his lock box, and at least 6 different place to hide the keys when he could not have them on him. Well that was not enough to keep his daughter from the gun, and she died...

For suicidal peoples, I agree that if they don't kill themselves with guns, they'll do it with something else, but at least when someone take a full bottle of pills, you get a small pocket of time to get them to the hospital or call the anti-poison center. A gun shot doesn't give that kind of chances.

have a 12ga next to my bed...no kids, but things won't change. I grew up with guns all through the house, and for the same reasons listed above, I didn't touch. I was taught gun safety very,very thoroughly.

I've been broken into once before, and one of them had a gun on them...the only thing that saved me was that I happened to be a light sleeper at that time in my life, and he didn't like the idea of sticking around to get sprinkled with pellets, although I know I caught him with a few...can't really be sure, all I saw was a$$holes and elbows.

So...

If a child sets the house on fire w/ the stove, should we ban that, too???

Geez. Stupid homeowner left his gun out where a kid could get to it. They deserve to be drug out into the street and shot. Period.

Don't blame the gun. Blame the dumbass owner.

Dobermann,

I disagree. I know a few people who have successfully protected their home from breakins by using firearms. So, your presupposition that it isn't likely and therefore not necessary doesn't hold much water with me.

It did come across a bit agressive, I just felt the need to get the point across that a combo lock would solve the problem and people who wanted guns could have guns.

Best damn quote period!!!

Mine are locked in a safe and the rife in a case. When my son gets older he will be taught as I was never to touch or go near the guns. He will also be taught safety. My profession requires guns in my house and nothing can change that. It's knowledge that saves lives.

I keep forgeting that I live in Canada and you ( most ) live in the US. A lot of people still don't lock their doors here.

If a kid plays with the stove and accidently set fire, he'll more than likely have time to get out of the house, his life is safe, stuff can be replaced. If he plays with a gun and accidently shoots a round, it ends there.
I'm all for mandatory storage laws, as strict as possible, because even though I raise my child as good as I want/can, I have no control over the dumbass kids of the dumbass neighboors. I can even tell my kids no to play with the dumbass kids, but shit still happens.

Its not about blame, its about prevention.

I grew up with guns in the house. My Dad didn't hide them from anyone, but he did lock up the ammo. We were taught to respect guns as a tool for sport and self defense and taught to respect our elders. None of my siblings ever even thought about touching Dad's guns without permission and supervision.

Like I always say, guns aren't the problem; it's the parents. Even if you don't have guns in your house, if your kids aren't disciplined and taught respect then they stand a good chance of getting their hands on a gun somewhere.

I only keep one small hand gun myself. It's kept locked in the console in the Xterra. I have no kids though, so I don't have to worry about that.

"It's about prevention." Give me a break. Lets ban all the cars, and fast food while we are at it.

I have plenty of guns in the house. They are all locked up, and only I have a key. The kids know how to use most of my guns, and they know not to touch them. I take my pistol out every night before I go to bed, and lock it back up in the morning. It is a simple routine that I have become accustomed to ooing.

I, like a few others here, grew up with guns. Got my first .22 at five, and my first shotgun at 10. I could have touched any of them at any time. I never did though unless my Dad was around, because he would have beaten my ass if he found out. When I turned 15 I was deemed responsible enough to take care of them on my own, and they went into a little gun cabinet in my room. I managed to survive an additional 15 years without killing myself or anyone else!

As for the gun ban in SF, have fun with all that. You would think that eventually you leftists would learn that only law-abiding citizens comply with gun bans. Congrats on opening up your citizenry to being prayed upon with little fear of retribution.

"I love's my gun!!"

Fags!

blame leads to prevention. That's the whole problem. Idiots blame the gun manufacturers for making something that can kill, so then the next step is to "prevent" it from happening, by banning the guns.

Personally, I don't own a gun. But it doesn't bother me if somebody else does. I don't, 'cause I've got enough expensive hobbies.

But for cripes sake, if you're dumb enough to leave your gun out where your 6 year old can shoot 'em self with it, then maybe you personally shouldn't be allowed to have a gun... But not because of the gun; because you're stupid. Stupidity should be painful.

On a somewhat brighter/skewed look at it, though... If you're dumb enough to not lock up your gun, odds are, your offspring is pretty stupid, too... So if one dies, that's 1 less stupid person in the world... May as well die when it's young, 'stead of letting it grow up stupid.

I don't care how much you teach a child about guns, they will go after them. The same rule applies to men; if you place a good lookin' woman in front of him who wants to have sex with him, he will go with that woman, married or not. Now not every time, but he will. Guess what, he knows the risk. He was taught to respect his wife and not commit adultery. He will still go. The same with kids. Locks and safes only make the owners feel safe and gives them an excuse when things go wrong. You like guns, good. You want guns, good. Keep them at the hunting cabin. Keep them at the local range. Not at home.

Wow... That's a helluva statement. You'd cheat on your wife? Does she know that? Did you miss that whole "thou shalt not commit adultery" commandment?

"if you place a good lookin' woman in front of him who wants to have sex with him"

His marriage is probably in no danger.

That's retarded.

If you're kids are undisciplined enough that they will flat out do what you tell them not to do (as in, "Don't touch my piece you little brat"), then maybe it's time you start spanking them!

Besides, a responsible thing to do is have a trigger lock on any gun you keep at home, if you've got kids. It's not rocket science.

There's buttloads of things around a house that can kill a kid. At my house, I can think of a few that'll do it instantly (nail gun, screw gun, dogs, wife, etc.). So when my little brothers come over, I actually pay attention to what they're doing...

It's very true that if a kid is intentionally looking for a gun, or something else, they're gonna' find a way to get to it. The only way to prevent that is to raise your kids right (I guess THAT'S out of the question these days...)

But most accidents are just that; accidents. Some dumbass owner leaves his gun where the kid can get to it, just screwing around. Then all the sudden, it goes off, and you've got one less kid. A trigger lock would prevent that from happening. AND, I bet that'll never happen twice...

Life is the hardest teacher. Don't teach your kids the right way, then life has a habit of teaching them for you.

I agree with you a lot, but this time you're full of shit. Teach the kids proper use and put them through a hunter safety program. Then be an active PARENT. My dad did it with his 3 sons, and I've taught my son how to use the weapons too. No problems. Ever. The guns are kept in their cases and the ammo is locked up in the safe along with my loaded .45. Please, don't ever move to the same state I live in and share your distorted views on guns with any of the local politicians. The NRA is in place because of opinions like this.

When I was a kid I was shooting in competition. (metallic silohuette - age 12, 13, 14). Won some trophies. Took second place in the state in Junior class....I'm very grateful my dad took the time to spend with me to teach me safe handling of firearms. A gun is simply a tool like a knife, a shovel, or a screwdriver. Put it in the hands of an idiot and that's when the bad things happen. My son can handle a gun more safely than most adults because I took the time to teach him.

Guns will always be in my home. It's my 2nd amendment right.

Thank you for that liberal spin, and I am sure your girlfriend will cheat on you.

It is called temptation, and everyone is tempted by something. You cannot expect that every child taught repsect with guns will never be involved in a gun related incident. How naive is that.

It has nothing to do with the 2nd admendment. It has to do with being a responsible parent. Once again, I am not against guns. You cannot believe that your kids will never be involved in an incident. You cannot believe that no matter how well you think you raise your daughter, the chance is still there that she will turn out poorly like babyx, not to mention pregnant at 15. Things happen. People are tempted, even children. If they want that gun to show off to thier friends, they will get it. No matter what you have taught them.

Fuck off asshat. There are already several stories in this thread proving you are full of shit.

Then shut your pie hole and be thankful. You could be next jerky tits.

Off2cjb....you're dead wrong. My brothers and I NEVER had that temptation. NEVER. It's when you hide guns from the kids and never teach them anything about them is when the temptations become too much. If the kids know they can go out shooting with Dad, it's a ton different.

My kids won't either. Handguns should stay locked up. They're not going to take any of my long guns anywhere. They know those are off limits.

Here's your problem. You're not giving KIDS enough credit. Look back in history and you'll see teens with huge responsibilities. In today's world, kids aren't maturing as fast as they used to because old fashioned parenting and placing responsibility on the kids has gone away. I still subscribe to those principles and work every day to teach our kids about responsibility.

I agree and sort of support your argument, but it only takes ONE time. Only one. Why play those odds when you don't have too. I fully support the 2nd admendment and served 13 years protecting that admendment, but you know what, the British aren't coming.

I never worried about my kids messing with my guns; they are trained in their handling but more importantly know that under no circumstances may they touch one without supervision. Regardless, I have always kept them all locked up tight not because of the kids but because of the kids' friends. You never know which one of them might have a brainless moment and do something without thinking if they ever were to come accross one. Even one second of careless with a gun could cause irrepairable damage; it's just not worth the chance.

In fact when I was a little kid, my teenaged brother's dumbass friend came over with one shell (nobody knew it) and blew off a 30.06 through the basement floor into the dining room table where my sister and I were doing our homework about 10 minutes earlier. Shit happens fast.

I keep mine locked and I'm the only keyholder. You also never know when your spouse is going to go over the edge. (Hey it's in the papers every day; think it couldn't happen to you?)

What about that was liberal? You said it yourself -- all men will cheat.

Sure, everyone's tempted by something, but that doesn't mean you have to give in to the temptation.

Yeah! I mean, that plan worked for Dylan Kliebold and Eric Harris too! :rolleyes:

those weren't 6 year olds that stumbled onto a gun at the house.

those were deranged teenagers, that bought guns for their own use. Different story. Different arguement.

But if they had been raised right, maybe they wouldn't have been little bastards, afterall...

Go back to your hole. Your opinions are worthless.

I thought this thread was about "Guns in the House". Apparently it's about who's F'ing who.

Statistically speaking, more married people cheat than not. Let the young, engaged ones say it isn't so, they'll learn.

Statistically speaking, not everyone cheats.

Back to your regularly scheduled guns-in-the-house debate... Have 'em if you want 'em, but teach your kids to resepect 'em.

I don't cheat but you know how hot my wife is so I could never do any better

51% divorce rate in America, and it ain't over controling the remote.

I think you would find the percentage of married men who cheat extremely high, if they answered honestly. I know from I have seen in the militay, the percentages are way high. Temptation is an evil thing.

They were reported to have been raised "right".

That rarely has anything to do with cheating. And if that is all you care about concerning your wife, your marriage is in trouble when she gets older. Good Lord, my wife is hot too but it isn't in the top 100 things I thank God for when it comes to her and our marriage.

Wives should be traded like cattle. Always look for a better one.

...and the number one thing off2cjb thanks God for when it comes to his marriage:
(drumroll)
That she doesn't start leaking air during sex!

THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! TIP YOUR WAITRESS!!

*sigh*

I would looooooove to see Shelley's reaction to that one...

OH I am sure she would open her mouth about it. BUT as usual I would back hand her trap shut. I will not put up with a woman with a smart mouth.

AAAAAAAAAAhahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......

That doesn't even make sense. I could be next? Next for what? What a bafoon.

Next, it could happen to you and your family. Then what are you going to say?

I am going to say you are a moron.

It can't happen to my family. My guns are locked up. No I am not worried about the local teen safe-cracker either.

Weird this happened to a friend of mine today.

http://www.duathlon.com/articles/3958

Fucking little bastards.

It is the parent's responsiblity to teach their kids right from wrong, as well as setting the example they want followed. If a kid wants to hurt someone, they will. It doesn't have to be with a gun - it can be with a kitchen fork, a piece of glass, a knife, a pencil - I mean come on. We can't just ban everything that could be used to hurt someone. Hold people accountable for their actions.

It is the person w/ the weapon that's the problem, not the weapon.

Just the other week there was a kid (18 I think) who decided to run someone down in his car and killed them. I think we should all band together and ban cars. They kill people. :rolleyes:

I heard this one too many times on this thread already. When my gun is able to take me to work or bake a pie, I'll admit that your argument makes sense. Until then find something better to compare to a device that has no other utility but kill ( be it people or animals ). ( And turning on the TV Homer Simpsons style does not count as an example of what guns can be used for )

Again, its not my kids I'm worried about, its yours and all the neighboors ones. If what you are worried about is home invasion, take the money you would spend on a gun and buy a lock for your door.

A lock for your door. That is awesome! You have an oven in your car? :rolleyes:

The parents were idiots.

Sorry Fronti if I wasn't meticulous enough for you.

Crazy canucks! I guess that's what they use for an extra heater in the winter??

Bunch of weirdos!

But seriously...

I guess my Machete collection should be "banned", then. I've got 34 of them hanging on the walls... From Honduras, Nicaragua, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, and Bolivia. I get one (sometimes 2) everytime I go. They serve absolutely no purpose. And yeah, if some little brat were to grab one, it'd take their head off in a hurry.

Guess that should be illegal.

I guess my bow should be illegal, too.

Good thing I got rid of all the black powder I had sitting around the house... Not sure what that was *supposed* to be used for, but it sure made a helluva' bang when it went... Probably a good idea no kid got 'ahold of it... Probably wouldn't have killed 'em, unless of course they put it in a little pipe w/ some nice end-caps on it...

Come on. This is getting retarded.

As a hunter/gun owner/anti gun law person who now has a 19month old daughter, let me way in.

I've been around guns my entire life. Shot my first .22 at age 6. Began hunting at 13.

I had shot and learned how to clean everything from .22's to 30.06's by 16.

Guns are tools like anything else. Learn how to use it, maintain it, and respect it, and teach your own to do the same and you'll be okay. I'm more worried about my daughter having an accident in the kitchen than I am about her getting a hold of my firearm, and when she is old enough(by my judging) I'll teach her all about it, because by then, I'll be more worried about boys getting a hold of my daughter.

In the grand scheme of things to worry about, a handgun in the home is not even on the radar.

Is that right or wrong? I don't really care, it's right in my home and that's all that matters to me.

As to xterrapin and SF banning guns. What is that going to accomplish? It really is so simple. The criminal element in the city will still have them, and those that refuse to give them up will become criminal. How's that a solution? How about our justice system actually following through with upholding the laws in place to begin with?

I'm not the one pushing for a ban on everything, you are.

When is the last time you heard a 'leftie' yell lets ban all guns and knifes !?

And last time I saw a machete at work, it was for cuting sugar cane, so it does have a utility. So don't be banning those.

Just to shut everyone up.

Please see: http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=008932

enough said.....

Uhm notsomuch.

Just to keep everyone talking:

"Of the murders in 2003 for which law enforcement identified the type of weapon, nearly 71 percent (70.9) involved firearms. Offenders used knives or cutting instruments in 13.4 percent of murders; personal weapons such as hands, fists, and feet in 7.0 percent of murders; and blunt objects in 4.8 percent of murders. Four percent of murders were committed with other types of weapons"

source: FBI Releases Crime Statistics for 2003

One case does not an argument make.

My post was more in the line of thinking that a child can get his/her hands on anything and become a danger. It's a whole different ballgame with teens/adults, though those numbers still pale in comparison to deaths in the US by automobile accident, alcohol, drug use, etc... and since over 70% where male according to those stats, then the problem is clear. It's not guns at all, it's testosterone.

Violent offenders need to have their bag removed.

I like it.

I never kept gins in the house and that was only 'cause I wouldn't have been able to sleep knowing my ex wife would have had access to 'em!

The reason why I posted this and the article that Samueul quoted was to pretty much point out that today the discipline of kids is way not the same as it used to be. I may be young (only 21 ) and not know a few things about this life but I can surely attest to how kids are raised these days.

One day standing inside McDonalds I overhear the follwing. I'll stay as close to the quote as I can from memory.

Mom: "What do you want to eat?"
Kid: "...a double cheeseburger"
Mom to employee: "Can we have a cheesburger and a small coke?"
Kid (something along the lines of): "Mom, I told you DOUBLE cheesburger!"

Fuck, I would have slapped my kid pretty had if he would disrespect me like that and yell at me!? All she did was ask the employee for a double cheeseburger and said nothing to the kid.

Parents are so much more lenient thse days. I saw that when I worked for Kmart 4-5 years ago and I still see it to this day. Parents often act like they are there to serve the kind and please them no matter what.

Don't get me wrong, not all parents a like that, just a few that I have seen. There have always been 'bad' parents but instances like the original article and such show just how much discipline, respect, values, control and responsibility have lost their value. Someone on here said that kids used to mature earlier and that's true because they were held accountable and had to help out family since early age because their help was needed and expected.

I love it when people pull that BS...yea, the brits aren't coming, but all of those ghetto babies that welfare supports are...and when they step in my home, and intend on doing my family and I harm, they're going to leave looking like swiss cheese.

What do you do with all of your tonic then?

Are you being serious? Did you just say "ghetto babies"???

1) It's impossible to ban guns. Whether it's a good idea or not is irrelevant because it could never happen.
2) Each person gets to decide whether they want a gun in their household and then hopefully be responsible with that decision as it effects their kids/family. Teaching your kids gun safety is no different then teaching them not to steal, lie, etc..

The whole "be responsible" thing means doing your best to keep guns away from kids until they understand how to use them and what kind of damage they can do(preventing accidents).

If you have the kind of kid that WANTS to shoot someone chances are they would find a way to kill even without a gun.

Guns aren't going away, that decision was made many moons ago. The best we can do now is prevent accidents by teaching/training/locking.

Or so you think. People like you who always claim you will pull out your gun and blast the bad guys away usually are the ones who end up dead when the bad guys take your gun off your pissed pants self and shoot you dead. No one ever knows what they will or won't do until it happens.

Not to dampen your argument (because for once we're on the same side...shudder), but his viewpoint isn't very liberal as you would normally define it.

If you would read the posts instead of hastily posting your ignorance...err, I mean opinion, you would remember the story I shared before you lowbrows started in...here, don't want you to break a fingernail clicking away in a frenzy...

So how do you take your shut up juice, nancy?

Eggscellent story. My old rommmate's Dad also has saved his ass and another woman's ass with his handgun and did not have to pull the trigger either time. It happens all the time.

OH please. This board has the highest percentage of "people who know other people who shot intruders". The only place I hear about these gunslinging heroes is on this board every time gun control is discussed.

I work for a PD in a large metro area. I've never heard of anything like this happening in the five years I've been working here.

Before that, I was a news photographer, and NOTHING like this ever came across our police scanner.

You all are so full of BS you could fertilize Montana with it.

Well, I don't know what to tell you hawaii 5-0...it happened, that's that. I sprayed the concrete block privacy wall around the pool with 12 ga. pellets trying to hit him in complete darkness. Never was caught, but he never came back...that was also when we started looking into alarm systems, too. I don't and never have lived in a big city. Where I grew up was very rural back in the day (and to some, would still be considered as such), so I guess that some thought that they would be able to get away with it. No street lights, nearest neighbor about 1/2-3/4 of a mile away...but back then ALL country boys packed.

Ooooookay, Wyatt. :rolleyes:

Liberal viewpoint?

I never hid smokes because I didn't smoke. I tried them once hated them. Never hid booze (got that at friends). Never hid drugs because I never in my life and still to this day have not done illegal drugs. Yes I hid things (porn, condoms, etc.) but come on.

Hiding above mentioned items is far different than hiding enough weapons and explosives to supply a small army. Spin you whatever hat whichever way you want it. It was poor parenting plain and simple.

Excuse me, jackass...I don't remember you growing up near me, but perhaps you did...b/c you evidently know so much about my life. So, if your years of ambulance chasing exposed you to so much of the world, even Rural Alabama, please enlighten us. I'm not posting any of this for your pathetic validation, I'm posting to show my opinion on this topic.

Don't you have some tickets to hand out or something?

I'm sure I could get a copy, but sorry, don't have one handy being that it was about 9 years ago

[/b]
And I'm posting my opinion that you and anyone else on this board that claims to have stopped a crime or knows someone who has because they had a gun handy, is full of shit.

I've been in more crime infested areas, covering nastier stories than you can imagine, and I've NEVER heard of anyone ever saving someone else because they had a gun handy. If that ever happened, it would be the first story on the news.

You know why you never hear that story on the news? Because it never f*cking happens.

Ok ok...you OR anyone else. :rolleyes:

And you're still full of shit, Gunslinger.

And I'm posting to tell you, that you're full of shit.

When we were just dating, my wife lived in Pittsburgh's Hill District. Anybody from the area, nows about the "Hill". Guy broke into her house from the kitchen, and we were right on the other side of the door. I had my Star .40, and I yelled that I was armed, and whoever it was retreated. So there's one instance right there.
Edit to add: Yes, even after serving in Desert Storm etc, I was still pretty scared....

Two: My uncle shot a guy at almost point blank in the chest with a 10 gauge shotgun up in wexford about 18 years ago. Guy was coming up the steps, and was armed, though my uncle didn't know it at the time. My uncle turned the corner of the hallway, pointed and fired. He new it was an intruder, cause his room was the last in their hallway and he checked his 3 kids(my cousins) rooms as he crept down the hallway. It never even went to court as the police found a .25 in the man's posession.

So there you go. Call me a liar or full of it if you want, but it happened.

You never hear the story in the news because that would paint a positive picture for handgun ownership and the media can't have that......

Maybe you should get out more often:

Cincinnati, OH:

Store Clerk Allegedly Shoots, Kills Robber

Logan, UT:

Courier Clobbers Would-be Robber

San Antonio, TX:

Would-Be Burglars Hit Wrong House

Wilmingotn, NC:

Carolina Beach homeowner kills intruder in self defense

There's plenty more, Willy Mac... Evidently, you're not the all-knowing god of the universe that you thought.

How's that foot taste?

Do you all honestly think we sit around the newsroom and say "Gee...how can we slant this to promote our liberal agenda?"

Come on. Don't be so stupid. A great story is what gets airtime, and someone stopping a robber by shooting them is going to get some airtime.

I'm still calling BS on these stories. 99.9% of the time, these things never happen, but somehow this board has attracted 100% of the people who have saved themselves by gun ownership. Nobody else finds that patently amazing?

Yep, I sure do, just as you can sit there and call my character into question by basically calling me a liar, I can call yours into question by saying you slant your journalism to further whatever agenda....

Hmm, you think maybe it might have something to do with it being illegal in DC to defend yourself with a gun?

Wow...four whole stories from over a year and a half ago...Whew. You're right. This shit happens all the time. :rolleyes:

Not when I work in Northern Virginia. Just because I say I'm in DC doesn't mean that the local news doesn't cover the entire DC AREA...

Just because you're unaware doesn't mean it didn't happen.......

Sorry; that's just a few of what I came up with, in a matter of seconds. If you REALLY want to spend the time proving yourself wrong, then by all means, look it up yourself. Here's a good start. These are JUST from the month of May, 2004:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/archives/2004_05_01_archive.html

Here are some from April, 2004:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/archives/2004_04_01_archive.html

Or how about March, 2004:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/archives/2004_03_01_archive.html

or maybe February 2004:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/archives/2004_02_01_archive.html

or maybe you prefer January 2004?

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/archives/2004_01_01_archive.html

From looking through there, it looks like there's about 1 incident, every 2 days in the US, dipshit. That's 182 a year. So again, evidently your pedestool isn't high enough to see the whole US... 'Cause you missed out on over 1,800 of these incidents in the last decade.

Just in case you're stupid, and haven't figured it out, yet, you can just change the date in each of those links, for whatever month you want, and get a whole long-ass list proving you're a dumbass.

For example, there were 110 incidents last month (that's 3.7 of 'em A DAY):

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/archives/2005_09_01_archive.html

Maybe you should get your head out of the sand. Whatever news channel you watch underneath your rock isn't telling you much of what's going on in the US.

AAAAHHHHHH HAHAHAHAHA!!! A gun defense blog?? You seriously expect me to buy that??? AAAAHHHH HAHAHAHA!!!

Yes. Because it proves you're an idiot.

But I guess you've answered this age-long question though, with a resounding, "NO!"...

But since I wouldn't want you to read that blog, here, just read these news stories:

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20050930/NEWS/109300040/-1/rss02

http://www.kristv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3917916

http://www.whbf.com/Global/story.asp?S=3917456&nav=0zGo

http://www.kobtv.com/index.cfm?viewer=storyviewer&id=21929&cat=ABQMETRO

http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cf...=localnews&om=1

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/archives/URL

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_092905WABdoubleshootingSW.a61661f6.html

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/news/local/12771706.htm

http://tampatrib.com/floridametronews/MGB92TB8UBE.html

http://ydr.com/story/main/87054/

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/5024947/detail.html

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050927/NEWS01/509270372/1004/NEWS

http://www.freep.com/news/locway/justify26e_20050926.htm

http://www.news4jax.com/news/5018850/detail.html

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050925/APN/509251013

http://www.kob.com/index.cfm?viewer=storyviewer&id=21832&cat=HOME

http://www.longmontfyi.com/Local-Story.asp?ID=3665

http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/local_news/article/0,1406,KNS_347_4105420,00.html

http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/092305ccjrwcncrowanhitlist.8945dcc9.html

http://www.newsvirginian.com/servlet/ S...!news!localnews

http://timesreporter.com/left.php?ID=45969

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-crime/2005/sep/23/519404614.html

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/12724539.htm

http://denverpost.com/news/ci_3054275

http://www.coshoctontribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050922/NEWS01/50922001

http://www.cleveland.com/crime/sun/index.ssf?/base/cops-0/112740739586680.xml&coll=3

http://www.shelbystar.com/portal/ASP/article_new.asp?ID=18709

http://www.macon.com/mld/telegraph/12708219.htm

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/092105/neR_19814488.shtml

http://www.fayettevillenc.com/story.php?Template=news&Story=7173874

http://channels.netscape.com/news/story ...72.htm&sc=rontz

http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050921/NEWS01/509210341/1006

http://cnjonline.com/engine.pl?station=clovis&template=storyfull.html&id=13061

http://new.wset.com/news/stories/0905/261851.html

http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=3861768&nav=0RdE

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/4996149/detail.html?rss=atl&psp=news

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-crime/2005/sep/20/519385167.html

http://www.click2houston.com/news/4995464/detail.html

http://www.pjstar.com/stories/092005/POL_B7K1IC57.013.shtml

And there's plenty more. I just got tired of wasting my time on your liberal trash, so I only got about a few of 'em from last month alone...

You know WilMac. I hate you. I hate you with all of my being because you are a dishonest cunt of a human being. You said it never happens and someone posted a few stories that shows it does. So you change your argument. It doesn't matter what you think you know. You are wrong.

Everyone's stories here prove it, as do the articles posted. Yes it does happen all the time. Hell it happened during the LA riots when Korean store owners sat on their roofs protecting their stores with semi-automatic rifles. Last month an elderly man in Oak Cliff killed an intruder that was trying to rob him for crack money. It probably happened several times in NOLA with looters. Just because you are a gun-hating, city boy, pussy, doesn't mean that they have not been used to stop crime in the past.

Here are some more links for you to choke on.

http://www.kc3.com/self_defense/susan_gonzales.htm

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2001/03-12-2001/vo17no06_gun.htm

http://www.illinoisleader.com/news/newsview.asp?c=11564

Check this out here are a couple hundred stories for fucktards like you that don't live in the real world.

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcInfoBase.asp?CatID=43

Damn!

Sorry to butt into this argument...but do I see two Mormon's at the counter?

As they say at Reader's Digest, It Pays to Increase your Word Power.

Thanks for the best new word I've ever heard.

I said 99.9% of the time! Of COURSE it happens...I spoke hastily. And you're probably right, the DC law probably has something to do with it.

Oh please. If that's true, then one of two things have been proven correct:

A) Somehow every right winger that drives an XTerra and has been attacked and has saved themselves by using a gun, has somehow miraculously found this board and are swapping stories, OR:

B) You're all full of shit. Which is the argument I still stand by.

Just not by you or anyone else on this board.

really? Here are some for you:
http://www.drkoop.com/newsdetail/93/8005925.html

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=local&id=3522086

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/35248

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3941098&nav=0RaP

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/kprc/20050927/lo_kprc/2961606

http://www.showmenews.com/2005/Sep/20050928News006.asp

Those are just from the last two weeks. Suck it.

What is your point exactly? Yes people do stupid shit with guns.

You need to learn to read I never claimed to save myself or anyone with a gun. I think three people out of all the members here have even offered a story. Thanks for the half-ass retraction.

(Break time)

Just thought I'd pass on a little story.

About 13 years ago a friend of mine's family owned a storage yard/equipment rental business. It was late on a Friday evening when his dad, a tatooed biker type guy was closing up and two guys came in and robbed him at gunpoint. He complied and then when they turned and started running away, still on the lot/yard he grabbed his gun from under the counter and dropped them both.

Only one of them lived.

He got out last year after serving 12 years for manslaughter. If you kill someone, even if they are on your property, make sure that A) you are the same race and B) you do it while they are looking at you and you feel that you are in immediate physical danger.

They weren't and he didn't and he got screwed.

Big time.

(Fight!)

That's CA for you. It is a bit different here in Texas. We don't have to try to escape first, and we can shoot someone running off with our property, especially at night.

That's not just California, that's most states, unfortunately. The other thing to be certain of is this: If you do use a weapon in self defense, make sure the bastard is dead. The living can come up with some jacked up testimony about how you invited them in and entrapped them, blah blah blah.

Well, that's where he screwed up. He shot both of them in the back, as they were leaving.

But yeah, that's pretty fricken lame...the tat's and looking like a biker probably didn't help him with the jury none...

Yep, and if they land in the street, just drag the lifeless body back onto your proterty. Learned that living in College Station.

I recently read a story, so its validity is debatable, where a citizen went to the ticket couter at DFW to declare his concealed handgun like a responsible gunowner would.

The agent asked if it was loaded, the citizen replied, no.

The ticket agent said, Well ya better load it. It don't do ya no good that way.

(sorry, I couldn't resist adding the TX accent)

Make sure they're dead, the living may come up with some stupid story about how they were allowed/supposed to be on your property, but that's peanuts compared to them suing you, that's right suing you, for injuring them...
crazy shit, I'll have to dig through my law text to find the precedent on that one, but I know it's there.

Dead men tell no tales.....That is why cops unload on perps. Their word against yours.

F'ng California! Another f'ed up state like Jersey. Shoot some M'fer on your property and YOU go to jail while he gets a settlement. That is why you shoot to kill. Period. F'ing lawyers!

Wilmac-
How can you call someone a liar just because they tell you their part of the country is different than DC/VA? I live in the sticks in Jersey. The local cops are a bunch of hicks. All the do is write speeding tickets. We had our first murder in 15 years recently and the State Police were called because the local PD doesn't know how to do a murder investigation. Point of my story is, I live in one of the most industrialized state's in the Union, between NY and Philly, but yet I live in a hick ass-backward town. Gun crime can happen anywhere, in anytown.

Stone

I have to agree with Wilmac to a certain extent; that is to say, I think gun defense success stories are few and far between. Shame there aren't more. It's a simple equation of logistics. Crime victims are often merrily slumbering or toiling away at their daily rituals, not expecting that an armed thief is about to accost them. Sometimes, through luck or extraordinary circumstances, the victim is prepared and is able to defend himself. But not very often. Not often enough, anyway.

Does that affect my argument for gun ownership? No. It doesn't have the slightest bearing. I don't give a flying fuck about statistics, or facts, or anecdotal evidence one way or another. I will always use a gun if I feel I need to, regardless of law or popularity or political correctness. Just like I will always control what goes into my body, I will always speak my mind, I will always keep a boundary that no one can cross. I don't give a shit about laws. Call me a criminal. Call me a nutcase. I'm a moral person, and I believe in myself. I believe in self-empowerment. And if the day comes when I must kill another human being in self-defense, I ain't coming without proper equipment.

I've never understood the American "liberal" stance on guns. Lots of liberals have used firearms to help foment change. If guns were good enough for Ché, why aren't they good enough for you? You think when the day comes when your "rights" don't mean shit to this government, and your life and livelihood is in danger, that the proliferation of small arms won't be a deterrent to an overbearing cop or politician?

As far as keeping guns in the house, I grew up with grandparents who had guns. Until I was an adult with gun experience, I never touched them. They belonged to my grandfather, and I respected my grandfather's belongings. That's all it came down to.

I have a kid coming any day now. I've got a kitchen full of the most vicious cutlery you can buy. My wife cooks huge pots of boiled and deep-fried foods. I keep fuel, and matches, and electrical equipment, and power-tools, and all kinds of dangerous stuff in the house. Yes, I will have to be more careful, but you cannot ever "child-proof" a house 100%. At some point, you have to rely on what you've taught your children. They will have brushes with death. We all have, and so will they. Can't be helped.

For hundreds of years, people have kept firearms at arm's length. Children have died, but we have education and information now. We have proper locks, safes, safety devices. Will more children die? Yes. Does that have anything to do with me? No. Much like my argument for marijuana, don't judge me for what someone else may do. I manage to live my life day after day without hurting the people around me. So just leave me alone.

Besides, much like seat belts, or drunk driving, American behavior is dictated by the shaping of thought. When people just get used to locking their guns in a safe manner, just like using their seatbelts or designating a driver, less people get killed. Which is the best we can hope for.

Hey Wilmac do you still want to hold onto the fact that no one on this board has used a gun to stop crime. Even me? Remember my profession now before you speak.

Tou...Che'!

I still hold onto the fact that 99.9% of the stories I read on here posted by you all are fake, but will grant that there might be that 0.1% that are true. Do I know which ones are true? Nope. But for a board that isn't about gun rights to attract this many people who have saved themselves with guns, you have to admit, is a little too amazing...

In all honesty, every board I have ever visited, when the question of gun rights comes up, this same exact argument is played out, so I don't think it has anything to do with this board. It's simply what it is. Guns do protect as well as harm.

What it comes to is responsablity of the people,
guns are no more dangerous than our X's.

I wouldn't use you standing by or for something as an arguing point, it obviously doesn't have much stay power.

I'm still waiting for your absolute reasoning. Just because YOU haven't seen it or read it in the paper yourself, what means that it didn't happen? Do you think that my story, nine years ago, about some mystery man possibly getting shot trying to break into a house in the middle of 90 acres in Deatsville, AL, would make national news to the point where you, in DC , would hear about it?

You have stories that people stand by with fervent steadfastness...and you have nothing...and obviously no backbone....or you would stand up and defend your stance with something other than

Sigh...I thought we were done, but I guess you can't let it go...let me try to explain again.

I just find it absolutely amazing that (it seems like) every gun owner on this board has some sort of story about how an intruder broke into their home and the only thing that saved them was a gun. Every time this comes up, every single gun nut on this board starts telling stories about how it saved their lives, and I just find that unbelievable.

I've never had a gun in my house, and I've never been broken into. I know friends of mine that do not own guns, and they've never been broken into. Yet, for some reason, if you own a gun on this board, it's somehow saved your life at some point.

I mean, with those odds, I'd rather not have one.

I'm not saying that you haven't had this happen to you. (I did yesterday, but that's because I got irritated at work, and took it out on this thread)

However, I do find it simply amazing that every single gun owner on this board has a story to tell about how it saved their life, or one of their "close personal friends" lives.

Well that is your entire problem. There are no doubt thousands of gun owners on this board. Three or fours have shared these kinds of stories. :rolleyes:

Ok, I do see your point, and completely understand your stance. I can't speak for the validity of any other stories other than my own, and being that you don't know me personally, I would only expect you or anyone else to question the integrity of the happenings.

Nothing like that has not happened since, although I have been in situations where I would have felt more 'comfortable' having one. I'm just of the frame of mind that as long as a criminal has the avenue to obtain a gun and POSSIBLY cause danger to me or my household, then I would like to be able to defend myself.

It may be a screwed outlook and frame of mind, but that's just the way I was brought up...

I own 2 guns, & never been broken into. I don't even have any good shooting stories. Does that lower the odds to your liking Wil? Does that make the others more believable?

Slightly, but since nobody ever says this, it makes the eight other stories you'll hear in a thread seem like everyone has one.

After three years of reading this board, yesterday I had just had enough and went off. I've worked for the PD for five years, and have never heard the gunslinger stories like I hear on here. And one would think that I would have, if they happen with the frequency that this board says they do.

Am I asking for a ban on guns? No. (I have in the past, but have changed my mind. Who am I to tell someone else what to do, espically if they're a cognizent and educated gun owner?)

My point was just that I was having difficulty believing some of the hero stories I read on here every time someone brings up gun rights. It just seemed like every time this subject got brought up, SOMEBODY has to tell their "Yeah, he was robbing me and so I grabbed my twelve gauge that I sleep with under my pillow, and blew that bastard away!" story.

And, with the day I had yesterday, I had had enough.

So, ok...you've got your story. I've said my peace on this, and it is now down for the record.

Now, who's got some titty pictures??

YES, yes, more titty pictures!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I don't believe you.

6 out of millions who own guns. Your argument to us does not hold water.

Who is us, you and WilMac?

I shot my brother once Dove hunting. He was pissed off about it.

What was so heroic about my stories? I was scared shitless and didn't even come face to face with whoever it was that broke in? I had my firearm, and I yelled through a door that I was armed, end of story. I could have not had the firearm and did the same thing with the same outcome, but if the person on the other side decided to come in, then well, I'm glad I actually did have a firearm with me.

My uncle was also very afraid, and I think reacted out of fear more than bravado...

If it makes you feel any better, every other household in my family also owns guns and I know of no "defense" stories bad or good, from them, though I have a 15 year old cousin in the grave cause some 13 year old fuck stabbed him in the neck at a schoolbus stop........

Ahem...

no tits but how about this instead...

What?

You expect the police to share stories with the janitor?

Get back to work and mop the freaking floor...

I write and direct their training tapes, so I've heard a LOT of stories...but thanks for playin' anyway.

I don't remember anyone pulling your chain recently, monkeyboy...also, I could really give a rat's a$$ if you believe me or not. I can only wish that the same situation happens to you...and we'll see how strongly you feel about it then.

You expect the police to share stories with the janitor?

Get back to work and mop the freaking floor...

[/qb][/QUOTE]I write and direct their training tapes, so I've heard a LOT of stories...but thanks for playin' anyway. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Sorry Wil-Mac, I don't believe you. :p

HAHAHA....

i have three guns, never had anyone break into my house, or used one to save my life. i have however, used one to beat the bejesus out of the damn girlscouts that rang my doorbell at 9:00 on a saturday morning (it jammed) -

now back to the tittie pix please!

So YOU'RE the guy in the wife-beater that always goes running out the back door when the cops come in the front??

That makes so much sense, now...

I love a good flame war!

Dude, don't get upset, this is the internet. Everyone on this board is Dirty Harry. Simply show me proof that this happened. It isn't difficult. Hearing you mumble, I would think you would have framed the incident report because you obviously are so proud of the moment.

Wishing it happened to me and my family, yeah that's heroic of you. Maybe you want to be the one trying to get into my place.

I said WRITE and DIRECT, not STAR, you turd.

However, I did enjoy taping your beating.

I knew this was headed here from the start...

It's hard to make it out, but I'm pretty sure that's your mom on top of the car... It's hard, though, 'cause normally I make her be on top, so I don't recognize her from this angle.

I just bought a gun, Living in Canada has become tougher with all tyhe illegal guns that is smuggled across the border...I got the gun with 500 rounds, fucking B'B's are hard to load, looks like a real gun So I will just wawe it and yell 'WHO'S YOUR BICHT NOW!!"

Remember to handle it sideway, gangster style. It hads to your character.

Wow, what a thread. When I was a corrections officer, I had a STEN Mk2 under the couch, a Sig P226 in the kitchen, and a Winchester 1300 and Ruger Mini-14 in the bedroom. Just being the good Boy Scout that I am - Be Prepared. Now that I'm in the relatively safe field of being an infantryman, I just have a Glock sititng in my room and a shotgun in the closet. No kids to worry about and anyone else that comes in is a potential target.
Now a word about safes. They are useless for anything but storage. We had a guy decide to start firing a few rounds at a formation today at Ft. Campbell. We have 100 M4s, a few shotguns, pistols, and machineguns and nothing was around to provide defense. Luckily the guy was a shitty shot.