[Note: These posts are getting very long. You don't have to quote every word in the previous post. Anyone reading the thread knows what's going on and can follow]

You give money to charity and help out with Habitat for Humanity. You're a hell of a guy. I'll nominate you for sainthood at the next Vatican Council. I'm sure you also turn down the receipts and time vouchers and never use them for tax write offs.

I'm very aware what socialism is and it doesn't work. Too much government is always a problem and never a solution. Private organizations will always do better than any government. Socialism is wrong. Why do you put so much faith in the state and none in individuals? Do you hate people or something? Socialism is collectivism and that is dangerous. Sounds like you want to turn the country into some kind of welfare state where people are dependant on the government. This is not Europe. I have faith in people and their ability to fend for themselves without government interference. Almost everything you say on this board seems to indicate some distrust of individual people and also corporations. Corporations have done more good for humanity than any government ever has.

If you want to pay more taxes, you are more than welcome. The Federal government does allow you to donate money to them. So do most State and local governments. How much will you be giving this year?

You people are still bitching about Flint, Michigan? Wasn't that Michael Moore's first piece of propaganda? That was in the 80's. Are you saying those same people are still out of work?

Anyone who put their whole retirement savings in the stock of any one company was a fool. What happened to them was bad, but it was flat out stupidity and poor financial planning.

You really are a spin-doctor. You people try as hard as you can to scream racism. You take everything out of context. I'll spell it out for you.... I know immigrants who are extremely successful. Some are millionaires. That's racist? They know the value of our freedoms and opportunities. You are the racist for automatically assuming it meant an immigrant is a deadbeat.

Your anti-capitalist and pro-socialist arguments are the same in every thread and getting tired. We will get nowhere with this argument. I am in favor of people and small government. You are in favor of the state and huge government. Nothing we say to each other will ever change that.

You don't sound one bit educated. You sound every bit indoctrinated.

I specifically did refute his claims in my post. How about arguing against them? Often we 'conservatives' have heard the same bogus arguments over and over again. I personally am not really that conservative. I do find the extreme leftists to be full of shit on most issues though, and I can say the same thing about extremists on the right like Madman. For example we disagree completely on the issue of homosexuality and abortion most likely to.

This I can agree with. And I've said as much.

(The original comment of mine wasn't pointed at you)

Moby.... You know that's not what he meant.

I know...it was a generalization.

Holy hyjacked thread Batman. But, I guess I got give my response to this:

I especially how you think I edited out something. a) I didn't change anything in the paragraph I picked out. b) I gave the link, did you want me to quote the whole damn thing?
Good for you for going to church (FYI: there's A LOT more than just going), don't know why you capitalized BAPTIST... are they better than every other religion? I thought only Church of Christ was like that. My wife is a hard core Baptist, would own you in any debate on the religion and she can't believe how misled you are. Me, I'm just a non-denominational... recovering Catholic. And I haven't met you and doubt I will... this is only the internet.
I think if you actually read AND actually understand the Bible, you'll find that Jesus was both a capitalist and socialist. However, he makes it very clear that it's our choice and not something we should be forced to do. I should not be forced to give to the poor... it should be my decision... which I do regularly along with what the government makes me do which is pointless giving. I'm not your preacher, but if you want me to site the Bible, I will. I just find it wasteful with someone like you who wants to hear what they want to hear. However, I suggest you go talk privately with your preacher. There's a reason more Christians are conservative than liberals.
I don't know you or judged you... I simply said you follow the teachings of the cult I found. You really assume the worst in people that don't share the same views as you first. Who's judging who?

What an arrogant asshole you are! Of course I turn them down. I also don't claim my tithe on my taxes either. I don't believe that I should benifit from doing charity work. That's not the reason I do it. I do it because I love my fellow man, and want to help those that can't help themselves.

I'm not looking for recognition.

What are YOU doing to make the world a better place?

(sorry for the language, but this guy is pissing me off.)

Because I figured you'd approve. It's a quite conservative branch of Protestantism.

An excellent point.

I'm waiting.

If you weren't looking for recognition you wouldn't be telling these tales about your so-called Christian charity work.

I don't believe for one minute that you are the religious guy you purport to be. I know a lot of devout Catholics and Christians and not a single one shares any of your world views. Some consider themselves liberal, but no where near the stuff you have been spitting out that past few days.

And no one would refuse to use the write offs if you give as much as you claim. That's just plain stupid.

Man, are you serious? Well, alright... only because I nothing to do at work at this present moment:

Jesus working hard (Mark 6:3):
3"Where did this man get these things?" they asked. "What's this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles! Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph,[1] Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.

(Ephesians 4:28) 28He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need.

(2 Thessalonians 3:10) 10For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

(1 Timothy 5:8) 8If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Notice the use of the NEW Testament? Like I said, I'm all for giving to the poor, I just want it to be my choice along with everyone else. I also don't want people being a "professional welfare recipient" who have no intention of working and earning their living. That is stealing from people like me.

No we don't.

uh...you asked him.

These are from the letters of PAUL, not Jesus. The first was a letter to the church at Ephesus, where he worked frequently. The second is a letter to the Thessalonians, and is a restatement by Paul of an old Jewish Proverb.

The most interesting one is from Timothy. You are ignoring the situation that Paul addresses to Timothy. It was concerning the issue of community support for widows. The widow is encouraged to make positive contributions to the church's ministry.

The passage reflects a fairly advanced system of care--a "roll" or "list" of widows eligible for support (v. 9). But the system was being abused; families of widows were not shouldering their responsibility, thus placing financial strain on the church. Then certain younger widows, who may have managed to get on the list, were threatening the church's reputation by involvement with the false teaching and scandalous behavior. The instructions address three related topics: the identification of the honorable widow, family responsibility for widows, young widows. Which goes along with what I've been saying all along. Socialism is a great way to govern, but it can't work all by itself. There has to be a medium between capitalism and socialism. You conservatives on here continue to ignore me saying that.

I never brought it up until you asked. I was only answering your question.

Maybe because you surround yourself with people that have the same opinions as you do. I know my friends and I get into these arguments all the time. It strengthens both our faith and our friendship in that we can argue these things and still remain friends.

Well, then call me stupid. But I believe I have ethics, and these are the ethics I live by. If that makes me stupid, well, I'm fine with that. But at least I can sleep at night knowing I gave up something so someone else could have a better life.

I'm sure we all hear you loud and clear.

I for one just don't agree with you and never will. I believe in enough government to provide vital services and representation. That's it. I don't believe in any type of medium.... by the way does that mean 50% capitalism 50% socialism. It will never work.

Well, Wilmac, that's the beauty of the Bible. You're going to interpret it the way you want to just like I will and you know what... everyone one in this world that can think for themselves will all have a different opinion on the message the Bible is trying to get across. If you know for a fact what God is saying, please prove it to me now because that mean's Jesus has come for us and you are him.

If you search the interent now, you'll find great research and opinons supporting both sides. Why is that? I believe it's because Jesus was BOTH a socialist and capitalist. However, I think people like you will fail to look outside of the box and read what you want to read. You all feel it has to be one way or the other and there's no room for in between.

Let me ask you this... there are 3 other major topics (besides the whole money thing) that politcs and religion clash on. What would Jesus support on the following topics:

1) abortion
2) homosexuality (the sin, not the person)
3) death penalty

There is a reason why more Christians side with the conservatives over the liberals. That's up to you to figure out why. Remember, it's the liberals that are taking "God" out of The Pledge, removing the Ten Commandments, etc... yeah, what great Christian-like acts.

I don't think we've ignored it because we've yet to hear you say that Jesus was a Capitalist also. You've said from the beginning he was a socialist only.

WilMac1023,

I was right about you. I knew you would be more than a match for these stodgy conservatives. NY Madman, NismoXse02, Off-His-Crib, and 2001frontier, leaders of the O'Reilly/Limbaugh religion, have all ganged up and launched just about every piss-poor right-wing argument against you, and you're STILL winning the debate!

Gotta admit this is good.

I did say some were liberal right? Unless your screen is showing something different than mine.

It's starting to pile higher and higher with you on every post.

If you love paying taxes so much, do you want to pay mine? You would be making my life better.

LOL, judge me into being a O'Reily/Limbaugh follower... I've never watch/listened to one show. Sorry to disappoint you. BTW, at least we talk and respond with our own thoughts instead of sticking our nose up one of our own's ass and dodging the whole topic altogether. How's Wilmacs shit smell? Oh yeah, he's really winning... Don't know how you came to that conclusion that he's "winning", but go ahead and think that, drone.

Oh gee Sean, you see, I think Madman, Frontier, Nismo, and Off His Rocker :rolleyes: are winning. It all depends on your point of view. Get over yourself, or call me when your mothership arrives.

His buttons are even easier to push than yours used to be...

He's got 4 or 5 people jumping on his case, and he's still holding his own. Can't say I've ever seen you do the same.

Nor you for that matter. So I say again, get over yourself. Never said he wasnt holding his own. We all hold our own here.