Yes...these are HUGE staples of every Americans daily diet....come on...gimme a break.....You are an absolute idiot if you think California is more important than say...Iowa, Illinois, Kansas, Oklahoma, South Dakota, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana etc......They dont call it the "bread-basket" for nothing....please do not bother responding if you are gonna throw me soft-balls like this one....oooopss, I forgot SOFT-balls is all you have anyway....

I will agree with you here....they all steal from the Rio Grande....so much so that it runs dry on a yearly basis and doesnt even reach the ocean.....its a shame really since it is one of great American rivers, being the 3rd longest behind the Mississippi and the Mosouri....

So you are going to stick to your claim that California draws water from the Rio Grande?

And what IS your point, exactly? You hate California, and Californians. You make a Malthusian swerve in your argument when you bring up population control.

I suggest you fly yourself out to California and tell those homeowners to their faces that it is for the best that their homes burn. Don't tell the Xterra Owner's Club. Go to the source. "Sucks to be you!" You can tell them, as their stuff goes up in smoke. While you are there, tell the firemen they are not needed. "Go on home, boys!" you can say, giving them a hearty slap on th back, "this one's on me."

These will be fine memories as you float homeward on the Mosouri.

You've stumbled upon the truth.

No one is more important than the other. It's an all together kinda thing.

S'like if someone says hey, we're gonna reduce your pay by 18%. It's not like that 18% was the most important part of your income, it's just the part that's gone.

For all of your yeebling, the fact remains that water policy is seriously screwed up in this country. In the Southwest, it will soon be the single most important issue. Foreshadowing most other concerns. It's truly a shame than no one seems to really understand the facts of the matter.

Rio Grande indeed.

And just to clarify, the -- um -- "Mosouri" is the longest river. The Rio Grande is the fourth in length in the United States:

1. Missouri, 2,540 miles (flows into Mississippi River)
2. Mississippi, 2,340 miles (flows into Gulf of Mexico)
3. Yukon, 1,980 miles (flows into Bering Sea)
4. Rio Grande, 1,900 miles (flows into Gulf of Mexico)

Uh, to clarify CA steals water from CO, UT, NV and AZ.

They would be stealing water from WA, OR, MT, ID and anyone else they could have gotten away with it from.

If your going to talk trash about water in the west, I highly suggest you read up on it. Cadillac Desert is a good start. A little slanted (what isn't) but a pretty thorough and interesting read. I grew up in the Bureau of Reclamation (literally) and saw most of what that book describes first hand. I would call the book anti-BOR, but it gets most of the major points right.

And it's entertaining to boot... if you live in the south west (and even if you don't) I highly recommend it. Colorado river basin is in about year six of it's 20 year drought/flood cycle - that's part of the reason I am hanging out back east - waiting to see what happens (population has exploded since the last drought cycle).

Bzzzt! CA Steals water - they have always used the "excess" overage. Gale Norton, the current Secretary of the Interior has been the ONLY secretary to tell CA to shove it and live up to it's agreements:
Interior secretary cuts California\'s share of Colorado River
10.17.03 Interior secretary OKs water settlement

Also, CA farmers (most of the farms are now owned by large corporations) pay 1930's rates, while the consumer users and WE the taxpayers pay the lion's share of the water rates.

Yeah, growing stupid shit at subsidized rates:
Briefing Paper

A quick search on google for subsidized California farmer water rate turns up tons of stuff.

And it wouldn't be so bad if people weren't so ignorant... when I lived in San Diego in '96, the San Diego water district was working on a plan to recycle waste water and re-introduce it into the reservoir system. Some idiot news person got wind of it, dubbed it "Toilet to Tap", got the ignorant population riled up and the project canceled. Millions of gallons of freshwater, dumped into the ocean because of a bunch of ignorant people fueled by sensational news.

Guess what, San Diego is at the end (well, not quite - but darn close) of the water chain - all the states above dump treated wastewater and worse in above them already. I pointed this out to my coworkers who were busy congratulating themselves for killing that "stupid toilet to tap" idea. I warned them that in 5-10 years when they were in the middle of a drought they would wish they had that project and the recycled water it would have provided. Oh well, guess they are going to find out the hard way.

Well, I guess when the southwest finally runs out, there won't be much choice, eh? Things should be interesting over the next five years - the fun has just begun...

"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."

Spalind: an example of why the gene pool occassionally needs a little chlorine. :rolleyes:

I know, how about CA stop buying water from AZ, etc..... and AZ stops buying gasoline from CA.

.#1--as far as the nations food supply goes I think all of you would admit that only a very small percentage of the nations food supply is grown in SoCal, I would hazard to guess that less than 5% of the nations food supply is grown in that area...most being in the midwestern states....#2--....I think a much smaller population would be the closest answer I can think of....turn back the clock to the population of the early 20th century....somewhere around the 100 million mark I think would be sustainable on the land we have without too much damage....

Now, you made these obviously ignorant statements and when you were presented the facts;

Half of ALL fruits and vegetables grown in the U.S. come from California.

13% of all farming products are from California.

California is the largest producer of dairy products in the country.

you failed to address the actual facts and you make some obnoxious statement softballs. Is that what happens when you are proven wrong? You made ignorant statements. You were provided with contridictory evidence of your ignorance. You have nothing left to say?

Your other thoughs about going back and time and dealing with the poplation as it existed long ago is assanine. Do you know anything at all about the subject you are attempting to argue?

An alternate way of looking at things--as to where people choose to live and whether they got what they deserve.....

A huge percentage of the land mass in this country is prone to some type of natural disaster. Anyone that lives within 100+ miles of an ocean is subject to hurricanes (I live over 70 miles from the gulf and ended up with 32 in. of rain in my neck of the woods 2 years ago from a tropical storm). People that live out west are subject to fires. People that live on or near a mountain are subject to avalanches and mudslides. People that live in tornado alley (TX, OK, AR, etc..) are subject to being blown away. People living near rivers are subject to flooding. Hawaii= volcanos. On and on it goes.

The point is there aren't many "safe" places to live and people don't "deserve" any of the natural disasters that occur, even when they know it's a possibility. Yes we all pay for the disasters that occur all over the country in a small percentage but the people who live in those areas pay more than the safe people.

Rant off.

I love that fact that most of the people railing against me are FROM California and are certainly not objective observers....and I DO know what I am talking about...CA DOES take water from CO and most other surrounding states to supply their population with water that itself cannot support...I would make the same criticism of Las Vegas and Nevada....people should not build homes on land that cannot support them....and secondly I did rebutt your point on the produce issue...Plainly almonds, pecans, grapes, and the like are not staples of the American diet, whereas wheat, oats, soybeans, etc. are...and again...please come up with some facts that are not culled from a biased report done by CA's own department of agriculture tooting their own horn...

Hell, the real water problem this country has is Mexico. They continue to break our water agreements, while we let them flood across the border.

Ahh....Excellent point...given that half of SoCal, AZ, NV and southern Texas is illegal Mexican immigrants we could start by sending all the illegals back to Mexico which would decrease the population and therefore the demand for water which is so much in need...now thats my kind of thinking!!!!

Why is everybody so worried about river rights? Dammit, turn on a hose! We don't need rivers anymore, the WATER COMES TO YOUR HOUSE!!

I really hope there is alot of sarcasm in this statement....if not...I am even more glad that I have moved out of Massachusetts so that I dont have to be in the same state as this moron....

You're an attention starved Troll and you're boring.

ahh...another intelligent response...and if I am such a troll starving for attention then why do I have so few posts???? hmm???? as a general rule I dont post unless I have a strong opinion about something and just because I disagree with you and your SoCal attitude doesnt make me a troll either....

LOL, trolls generaly have low post counts...

because they simply exist to cause problems, they have no other life and therefore wander from board to board causing problems...

if you were a well established member with several thousand posts, no one would consider you a troll... just a moron.

It's called commerce. If other states give back our products (includes computer technology, aviation technology, agricultural products, the space program, the nuclear program, and petroleum products), then we will give back their water. Also the Xterra was designed and developed in SoCal. The designers probably used stolen water to work on that as well.

[begin over the top reaction] Oh no! We all drive Xterra's. We are supporting the water hogging CA lifestyle. It might be time to boycott every product that ever came from CA. SELL YOUR XTERRA! SELL YOUR COMPUTER! DON'T BUY ANY ALMONDS! [end over the top reaction]

Reposted... just in case:

Half of ALL fruits and vegetables grown in the U.S. come from California.

13% of all farming products are from California.

California is the largest producer of dairy products in the country.

oh, and just to update everyone on this conversation...Though you may disagree with my conclusions ie: that the peoples whose houses are burning down should have seen this coming....None of you have been able to dispute the facts in the case--#1--houses are burning, #2--the cause of the severe damage is an area that is overly dry and filled with tinder, #3--a reasonable person who has observed fact #2 would think twice about building their house in such an area, and #3 the rest of the nation should not have to pay for the fact that facts #2 and #3 were ignored...

Fact. If the environmental wackos had allowed the powers that be to reduce the amount of brush, undergrowth, etc etc, we wouldnt be having this problem. What is it about these poeple that they would chose the life of a tree or a friggin chipmunk over a human life?

And AGAIN I am saying the these "fruits and vegetables that you are claiming are not staples of the American daily diet!!! I for one do not dine on a plate full of ALMONDS for lunch on a daily basis!!! and the large portion of these products I doubt are grown just outide of the LA and San Diego areas...more than likely most of them are grown in the more temperate northern California areas and not in the arid south....

So, I guess that means we have every right to the Iraqi's oil, since we've taken over their country.

HAHAHA