Is it just me or is the media overlooking a huge issue with these fires....I mean, its like the people who build their million $ houses on the beach in FL and NC and the like and go crying to their insurance companies when a hurricane comes by and flattens them. Though I feel sorry for these people losing their houses in the fires and feel even more sorry for the firemen busting their asses to put out the fires, this IS what happens when you build your house in the middle of what essentially is a desert....they wouldnt even be there if they weren't stealing all their water from CO in the first place for god sakes.....

This sure looks like a troll to me....

But you don't have to be a dick! Who cares where they live or where the water comes from.

Should I not feel bad for you if some arsonist comes and burns your house down...I mean how dare you have a house when people in this same country don't even have money to buy dinner for themselves or their families.

As well, how dare you take water from the earth...it wasn't put there for you - it was put there for all the little fishies!

But I guess if you can cry yourself a river, you will still have something to drink!

If they lived in a desert they would have nothing to burn and no forest fire.

So people are not supposed to have a nice house somewhere for fear mother nature might take it away. Man I hope a tornado doesn't tear my house down because it is my fault for living in the midwest. :rolleyes:

Cali fires?

Those Colombians must be pissed.

WTF?????? Have you ever even been here? Big Bear is not a desert. As Paul said, it is called a forest fire for a reason. How dare you blame where people want to build their houses for this tragedy, which is what this is. Not only is this horrible for the people who lost EVERYTHING they had to the fires but, it is going to destroy tourism for years to come. Big Bear is a ski resort in the winter and a hiking , off-roading, mountain biking, fishing, and all around outdoors paradise in the summer. The San Bernadino mountains are some of the most beautiful in the country. SCCX does many of our runs there. Your idiotic statement baffles me.

Jason

Hey spalind!

Got a message for you HERE

I don’t normally get involved in such discussions, but this one hits close to home.

The reason why we have such devastating fires is due to a cluster of a forest management plan in So Cal. On one side we have the “don’t cut/don’t burn” team and on the other side the small timber interest that have been chased out of the tree farming business in the Pac Northwest and have been forced to grab what they can down south. Both sides are highly suspicious of each other’s motives. What we end up with is a management policy that is a stagnant morass that needs a major shake up.
We need to do controlled burns, and we need to have selective harvesting that includes removal of dead scrags and replanting.

I consider myself an environmentalist but folks need to get off their high horse and focus on reasonable use of public lands that includes a forest management plan that includes recreation, economic considerations and preservation. I was a member of the Sierra Club since I was sixteen, but quit them three years ago because of their inability to literally “see the forest for the trees”.

I got my degree in anthropology and the record shows that indigenous populations regularly burned forestlands that ensured healthy forests for game and harvesting. While I have no illusions of the backward thinking idea of the “noble savage”, we need take a hard look on how natural and man-made burns have helped maintained healthy forests.

Doug

oh, to clarify.

CA steals there water from AZ.

Ah, thank you for clarifying Todrick...CA steals water from many states....AZ AND CO, since the rio grande starts as a CO river and much of the water is from the Rio Grande...2nd....not all deserts are like the Sahara...any place that falls under a certain amount of rain is considered a desert...it does not need to be treeless to be considered a desert...witness Antarctica--a desert...or Big Bend National Park....part of one of the larger deserts in North America and yet it is covered in scrub grasses and trees...and again...you people read far too much into what I say...just like the woment that most of you are...take what I say literally and in no way else...I feel sorry for people who lose their homes and the firemen who have to work in those conditions but when you build your house in a fire prone area this is bound to happen...and the rest of us...through higher property insurance and taxes (because WE fund the relief efforts paid by the state and federal government to rebuild these places) have to pay for many of these people to rebuild in the same damn places!! Its like those idiots who build their houses in areas prone to mud slides and on the edge of cliffs at the beach...yes its pretty but I shouldnt have to fund the rebuilding of their house because they made a stupid decision!!!

Ahh yes, the mighty forests of Antarctica.

You play a shrewd game.

A

OK dimwit...I wasnt refering to there being anything like a forest to burn in Antarctica...I was merely trying to get the DEFINITION of a desert across to you people and trying to show that not all deserts are full of sand like the beach....

the "Low lands" of So. Cal, yeah they are a desert.

But Big Bear? you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that a Pine forest at 10,000ft is a desert.

there are some very different regions within So Cal.

Then work on your communication skills.

It's a lifelong hobby.

A

Edited to add:

And I'll throw you a bone and not bring up the fact that the Rio Grande has very little to do with Arizona and California. P'raps you meant the Colorado?

Sorry dude but CA AND AZ both pipe water in from as far away as CO...including the Rio Grande....but you're right...they thief from the Colorado river too....damn SoCal people...its almost as if they think they deserve all their privilages just cause they live there...too bad the state won't divide into a NorCal and a SoCal so we could satch SoCal devolve into a third world nation that we could give back to Mexico!!

Are you absolutely sure? I am unaware of any water pipes that take water from the Rio Grande, cross the continental divide, and deliver said water to California.

a

I guess a few things come to mind.

I watched a Sierra Club idiot say the same stupid shit last night. There's nothing like a smug, I told you so, treehugger declaring that these people had it coming because they built their houses on top of nature to make you want to vomit.

1. Why would anyone in Mass. care where California gets it's water.

2. States sell the water so that California's farms can grow the FOOD that everyone in this country eats. You dont like it? Try growing shit in the snow. We also need the water because people from all over the country keep coming here. We can't stop them and they have to live. I guess it's not a bad idea using the water to keep people alive in a state that people want to live in instead of it sitting there doing nothing out in the middle of nowhere.

3. Aspen, Tahoe, Mammoth, Big Bear and countless other resorts exist all over the country. Do you suggest that all ski resorts should be uninhabited? Or just that anyone that chooses to live in one deserves to have their house burned down by an arsonist?

4. You obviously haven't been to California and if you did you didn't pay much attention. California has probably the most diverse topography of any state in the country. Los Angeles is pretty much a desert. The desert is boardered by mountains on one side and the ocean on the other. The mountains, in this case the Big Bear/Arrowhead area get snow. There's also a pretty damn big lake in Big bear. It's not very deserty up at 10k feet in the snow.

Don't you have a hurricane to chase somewhere?

Spalind,

You are indeed a troll. You might want to check up on your history of water (mis) management in the west. There is a great book by Marc Reisner titled Cadillac Desert. It has very few photos, so you might not be interested in it.

Additionally, it appears that you get snow and subsequent flooding in your area from snowmelt and rain. You might want to make sure that folks in your area never tap FEMA for help like they did in 1998.

FEMA Web Site

Doug

damn, I'm slipping.

This is likely a stupid question...but then again what would you expect from me??? A "troll"??? what does that indicate?? someone who annoys all the other users of a board?? I am just guessing....as for the other issues....

I have been to CA...LA mostly...but have also been to AZ, NV, TX, and CO and I have seen all your ugly, cheap, harmfull sprawl all over what used to be the beautiful West....I had thought the East Coast was bad before I saw LA and Las Vegas but now I see what sprawl really is...Go ahead...keep sucking up all the water out there to water your rock covered lawns...hmmm...now I see why Cali is in such big trouble...all of you seen to have an IQ on par with your former governor....

Oh.....and Hurricane season is winding down....not officially over for a few more weeks, so who knows...but now I have to look for other things....

Source

didn't you read Socal's post? If you shut down the water source to CA, then a huge chunk of the nations food supply is also cut down.

As for urban sprawl... We can't really help it if people used to move out here from across the world and across the nation. Given the current economic state of the world, CA probably already peaked population wise. Was too much developed? I don't know. The rate of development probably was appropriate for the rate of growth (or the demand at the time).

Question for spalind:
Where do you draw the line for sprawl? What is considered "ok" in your mind? Obviously people in CA don't have a high enough IQ to answer this. If it weren't for sprawl, we would all be living in great big cities in high rise apartment buildings. Is that what you want?

OK, finally a reasonable response that asks intelligent questions...#1--as far as the nations food supply goes I think all of you would admit that only a very small percentage of the nations food supply is grown in SoCal, I would hazard to guess that less than 5% of the nations food supply is grown in that area...most being in the midwestern states....#2-- as far as what level of development is OK...I'm not sure....I think the horse has left the gate on this one...at this point the sprawl is irreversible due to the fact that America is a country where everyone must "move forward" meaning bigger and bigger houses and developments...I dont think enormous high rise buildings in crowded cities are the answer either....I think a much smaller population would be the closest answer I can think of....turn back the clock to the population of the early 20th century....somewhere around the 100 million mark I think would be sustainable on the land we have without too much damage....

Cool. Mass killings for the good of the many.

Can we nominate people?

Alright, since you apparently have no idea what you are talking about, here is a breakdown of the water usage and economic impact of the water used in California.

Environmental use: 46 percent
Agricultural use: 43 percent
Urban use: 11 percent

Agriculture is one of the state's top industries, providing one in ten jobs. In 1997 the agricultural industry contributed $26.8 billion to the economy through direct sales. When the overall economic impact is figured, the industry is responsible for over $100 billion by creating jobs for additional products and services such as transportation and packaging.

Source: California water FAQ\'s

As far as your thoughts about California's agricultural contribution, you are an idiot.

California has been the nation's top state in agricultural reciepts since 1948.

California is the nations largest dairy producer with 18% of the national production value in 1999.

California accounts for 13% of the national cash reciepts from agriculture; $24.8 Billion.

Source: UC agriculture study

.The Golden State is the largest agricultural producer and exporter in the
United States, a position it has held for more than 50 years.

. California farmers and ranchers supply $73 million in food, fiber or flowers every day.

• California produces 350 crop and livestock commodities.

• Eight of the nation’s top 10 farm counties are in California.


California farms account for 13 percent of the
national gross cash receipts from farming products

California farms grow more than half the nation’s fruits, vegetables and nuts from just three percent of the nation’s farmland.

• California farms cover approximately one-third of the state’s total land area.

• California is the sole producer (99 percent or more) of the following commodities:
• Almonds
• Artichokes
• Dates
• Figs
• Raisins
• Kiwifruit • Olives
• Clingstone Peaches
• Persimmons
• Pistachios
• Dried Plums (Prunes)
• Walnuts

Source: http://www.calclingpeach.com/html/rcpe_consum/ca_grown_didUknow.html

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

LOL " much of the water is from the Rio Grande " . You had better get in line behind New Mexico, Texas and Mexico.