What i was implying by extracting pakistan was that I like the idea of hitting a Bee's nest before the fuckers can fly. Pakistan is the armpit of the world, the Government is curroupt and has no credibility what so ever. I am also certain that that Air Strike was not the work of the Paki's but a little CIA finesse....

Conundrum - No, I will not except that answer.

I want to know why soldiers should be treated any differently than the average worker in a hard, dirty, dangerous job with little pay. I will give the following examples of people in America that work to give us all the way of life we so treasure. Please answer, I want to know, and I will listen; my mind is open.

For example -
1,234 construction workers died in the private sector in 2004. Where were the parades for these brave men and women, where are the CNN segments thanking these people?

More than 1,000 people—including more than 100 highway workers—died in 2004 in roadway construction work zone accidents. Did you thank a highway worker when you saw one last?

45 coal miners have died this year to date to provide you with the power you recieve when switch that light on. Do you think of that when you last turned on a light, or your computer?

Bottom line - soldiers have a tough job, but so do a lot of unamed workers that few people if any think about. I'll say it again, I respect soldiers, but no more than any of the workers posted above.

So conudrum, please explain why the people listed above do not deserve the same level of respect as the average US soldier.

Steve - yes evil does exist. Yes, you can negotiate with evil, to an extent (Churchill circa late 1930's and Rummy circa mid 1980s). Yes, you can contain evil (please see Iraq and Iran, before this current war) And yes, you can ignore evil (please see Iran and N. Korea now).

What to do about the current problems of N. Korea and Iran - I don't know (here comes madman w/ his "thats so typical of you left wingers"), but honestly have we really given any thought to this? Lets sit down and figure it out, cause at least someone will agree that war is not always the answer.

It's accept you pompous little piece of shit.

I guess you don't have a choice, but let me indulge you slightly.

I get up everyday, know where I am, know where I'll be sleeping. Know that I can eat 3 squares a day. Know that I can sit around and do nothing if I choose. Know that I'll make it home safely to my Wife and Child. Know that I can go off-roading with some buddies next weekend. Etc....

Military life: None of the above applies, yah, you'll be getting up, but you won't know if you're even going to get to go to the bathroom let alone know that you're going to get even one good meal. Top it off with you don't know if your Countrymen despise you or are cheering for you. You don't know if you'll even make it through the day without getting hit by an IED or sniper as CNN has proudly displayed.

So answer in a nutshell, you don't know what you're talking about and comparing apples to oranges is just stupid (Kerryeske) and really deserves no comment.

Enjoy your freedom, someone died for it.

Thanks Dan, I needed that today.

Enjoy your electricity, someone died for it.

Edited cause I want to keep it simple.

No I want some more.

Everyday the men and women of the WV coal mines get up and go to work. Thankfully, they don't have to ask anyone to take a piss; however, they don't know if they are gunna get blown up, have a fifty ton rock fall on thier head, get their heads torn off by a mucker, get ripped in half by a slusher, fall into an ore shoot, get run over by a continuous miner, get torn up by a longwall shearer, drown in a flood, die from lack of O2, burned alive.... the list goes on.

Your disrespect makes me as mad at you as you are at me. You are as disconnected from reality as me. You are the type of person that thinks a steak comes from Safeway and light from the light switch. You are the type of person that says, "well mining doesn't effect me."

Think about it, all these people "fight" to allow us to live the way we do. If they stopped going to work, tens of thousands of people or more would die very quickly, in the first few days. In the weeks following that hundreds of thousands more would die - from starvation, dehydration, lack of medical care, lack of an ability to go anywhere or do anything. All progress, all life in the US would come to a screeching halt, quickly.

You call me arrogant, you call me pompous. Look at yourselves. You can't make an arguement because you couldn't dare to extend any kind of respect to the lowly worker. You couldn't even acknolwedge the sacrafices they make everyday. More than 1000 construction workers and you couldn't even say a word to that.

The real funny part is you probably think the average mine worker is too dumb to find a job anywhere else. That is not the case, most love what they do. Most have lost co-workers, friends, and family members to work related accidents.

Ok now im pissed!!!!!!!

Branden the only reason you can say the rhetoric that spills out of your mouth is because a soldier died for that right.

A soldier is a volunteer and we know full well the ramifications of our profession. We dont want to go to war anymore than you want us to so let me ask you this....why did you send us?????

Im assuming that you vote (and if not then just STFU now) and last time I checked not too many people seemed to argue with going to war....in fact the vote was 296-133 in the house and 77-23 in the senate. Compare that to the 91 war in which it was 250-183 and 52-47 so obviously some people thought it was important and vital to our national interest. Maybe you should speak to your congressman or move to Massachusetts and talk with old Ted and John.

Trust me there is much more information than meets the eye that you will never see its called "asset protection and preservation." This could be HUMINT, SIGINT, EINT etc. And that is why we did and do what we do. Like the old saying goes, "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." (I think it was George Orwell who said that.)

There are roughtly 140,000 US Soldiers in Iraq now. Attempting to establish a functioning democracy in a country that has had terrible hardship. They might be heading towards a civil war but we had one to and actually the CSA was in talks with the British Empire for assistance and we are helping the pro democracy Iraqis.

Dont worry about Korea. The goal of the NK's is re-unification of the two Koreas. They will not nuke the south for that reason and also since Americans would be killed and it is the Presidential policy of the United States to retaliate with a full nuclear strike should our forces be slimmed or nuked. The real threat is to Japan so they will not enter on the Souths side but that is why they use the PATRIOT system which despite what you read....it works...very well!!!

So in closing let me say that you may belive whatever you want...please do that is why one of my best friends died so that you could do that and so that the Iraqis can too. Until you fold the flag of a young man killed in Iraq to the tune of taps, hand that flag to his mother, say those 45 words (if you have never heard them I pray you never will) and salute her all while holding back your own tears then you have no right to speak on such topics.

So simply put....a soldier does for an ideal....a noble quest.....the preservation and spreading of what we call democracy....we are the only country who sends citizens to their deaths not for riches....power....or land...but for an ideal. God Bless the USA.

Tim

PS- Freedom isnt free ask 1,190,262 dead heroes!!!

Where do you people get off thinking I like to see soldiers die?

It saddens me as much as the next person. I wouldn't be holding back tears, I would be balling outright. The news of each death stabs me just as deep as you. I think about thier families, the knock on the door that changes thier lives, and I am as emotional as the next person. I just don't see the difference between thier deaths and the deaths of the two coal miners that happened in the last 3 days. Thier families also got a knock on the door that will change thier lives forever.

I want our troops home, safe and with thier families. I don't want them in harms way. I want no more troops to have to make that sacrafice. I want peace.

In 2005, 43,443 people were killed in motor vehicle traffic crashes, 2,699,000 people were injured. That's only one year and that's after a large reduction in the number per year and it's only in the United States. If you are so concerned about human life why don't you work to reduce those deaths and injuries? I don't think military jobs are more dangerous than some civillian jobs. I respect the motive behind the job, not just its danger level. Jobs that protect others by risking your own are at the top of my list, then jobs that save lives, then service industry jobs, then at the bottom there are mining engineers;) Just joking, mining engineers aren't on my list of jobs I respect. Probably because I never gave it much thought before. It is definately an under appreciated field. I don't think that you are going to win the respect you feel you deserve by putting down those that you feel earn more respect undeservingly.

I understand your ire. You dug some pretty nice holes that helped our economy and here are all these people you consider killers getting the free beer and slaps on the back. Pretty unfair if you don't pay attention to the fact that I had to do without beer or sex for a year. I couldn't even watch videos or read magazines that depicted sex.

If you can go the next year without drinking alcohol or having sex or looking at porn, I will vote for the democrat of your choice in the next presidential election. I don't have to worry about it though, because even though you will have all the other comforts of civilized living that I didn't have, you don't have what it takes to give those three items up for a year.

My friend....that is why you will never understand what we do and why we do it, but your welcome!!!

Tim

Bullshit....

Explain yourself????

Tim

Just in case you cant think of anything let me help.

The Revolutionary War- The free ourselves from the oppresive rule of the british crown.

The Mexican American War- The American annexation of Texas whose independence the Mexican had never fully accepted made war with Mexico inevitable. When the Mexicans refused to meet with a US envoy sent to negotiate a settlement of outstanding issues, President Polk ordered American forces to maneuver close to the Mexican border in disputed territory. The Mexicans attacked and the war was on.

The War of 1812- Revolution Part II

The Spainsh American War- The long going revolution in Cuba against Spanish rule had long been a source of friction between the United States and Spain. The American people had long supported the goal of the rebels, and Spanish actions against the rebels.

World War I- Basically to bail the French and British out and stop the spread of the Prussian Empire in conjunction with the Ottoman Turks.

World War II- Pearl Harbor and Adolf Hitler.

Korean Conflict- Never an actual war but to preserve democracy on the korean penninsula from communist invasion.

Vietnam- Same as Korea stop or slow the spread of communism.

Grenada- To liberate the island from communist backed rebels and soldiers from Cuba.

Panama- To dispose the corrupt and abusive government of Manuel Noreaga (SP Sorry)

Desert Storm- To liberate the nation of Kuwait from Iraqi invaders.

Bosnia- To help stop the murder of millions of innocents.

OEF/OIF- September 11th and to dispose the murderous regime of Saddam Hussein.

Tim

Now onto the fun stuff.

Ancient Warfare- Athens, Sparta, Carthage, Rome, Mongols, Chinese, etc...money, wealth, power, land and prestige.

Medievil Warfare- Mainly based on European and Oriental ideals of fuedalism which stemmed from the King wanting the same as above.

The New World- Destruction of the Inca and Aztec Empires along with others and killing of untolds people...why...Gold, riches...the same as above.

The British Empire- Boer Wars trying to expand their empire in fact concentration camps were used in the second Boer war but were first used by the Spanish.

Germany- World War I and World War II both land and the expansion of the empires and the political leaders they reprsented.

So you see there really arent too many examples of a nation fighting to help and protect others the way our nation does it. Believe what you will about oil and such but as the saying goes "we dont start em, we finish em."

Tim

I was in no way threatening Branden, I was just trying to see if he will step up to the plate and tell someone what he really thinks of them or is he just all talk. What some others may do though is beyond my control.

And Branden, I appreciate those that provide for us all of the things day to day that we take for granted i.e. farmers, miners, refinery workers, etc. However those people can seriously reduce their chances of injury or death through safety precautions. While soldiers can to an extent having someone shooting at you and trying to blow you up is always going to be inherantly more dangerous than any other job. Plus as Randall said, we do this for a year at a time without our family to come home to at night.

Come on down to Carson, I'll be there on the 11th (hopefully). My wife is taking me to Hooters for lunch. Come with us and have a few beers, we'll talk things out.

Axle

I got the Wife of My former Platoon Sgt who is trying to explain to her 6 year old son why her dad is not returning from Afghanistan (was killed early last year along with 3 German Soldiers trying to defuse a IED) he was from Denmark.

I have 600 Danish Soliders in Iraq who are getting shot at as much as ANY American Soldier who would say Bullshit to your comment also. Want me to go on?.

Not Saying the US has not paid a price or are fighting for an ideal, but you can by no means claim you are the only one

Gimme the address and when you are gonna be there, I will call and pay for a Pitcher

We are just the ones that lead the pack and bear the brunt of the suck!

Tim

Branden...............

You are not worth defending. There are many Americans not worth defending. I defended an American Idea. That of freedom. Many have died as a result of trying to protect this idea. And its exercise. In my world you would not vote until you had contributed to the defense of this country. The Soldier or Sailor only go where they are sent by OUR government. You would bring them home. Bully for you ! You pacifist twit. You would never commit troops to battle (for any idea! or value!). And when we were under the control of the next world threat you could marvel at the peace WE were living under. I encourage you to move to a country elsewhere in the world. Maybe to Europe.They have miners there to. Maybe they could pay you the same wage as the miners to make you happy.

So bringing our troops home will bring peace? I don't think so. You should be praying to whatever god you pray to that the troops are fighting the terrorist in Iraq and not in downtown Nederland, CO. We fight in Iraq so we do not have to fight in the US. Cut and run like you seem to want to do will only weaken America and open ourselves up for more attacks on our soil. The "sacrafice" that you seem to preach about and know so much about keeps you safe at night in your little lollipop world that you live in. I agree that the administration made many mistakes,and in general has pretty much sucked (insert illegal immigrants here) but we have to finish the job, let the soldiers fight with both arms and not one tied behind there backs that the media and the far-left wing of our government is hell bent to tie. I am glad that you have your freedom to say whatever comes out of your clouded mind (insert coal dust here) and I am glad that we can argue this in a somewhat decent manner, but honestly Branden, you really have no clue what our troops are made of and what they are capable of. I really hope that you meet Axle at Hooters and buy him a beer. He deserves one from you.

Hooters of Colorado Springs
750 Citadel Drive East
Suite 1012
Colorado Springs, CO 80909

719-596-3111

I should be there on the 11th around noonish. Name is ROSE.

Axle

On it, consider it a thanks from the guys upstairs.

Axle - I've got firefighter training that morning, usually finishes around 11:00. If that is the case, I could be down there by 12:30 – 1:00 ish; if you aren’t gunna be there that long we can figure something else out.

If it's your wife taking you out, by no means do I want to intrude upon your first meal back. If it is OK with you I will make it, otherwise we can reschedule. Either way I would like to invite you and the wife up to our little mine for a tour, and dinner at the local inn, which I will buy. I think we will both learn a lot about what we have been talking about here. I am always open to discussion; maybe I will change my views and opinions as my mind is never closed.

If it also OK I might bring a few others down (they do not share the same views as me, so don't worry I ain't trying to team up on you).

I did not mean to belittle your profession in any way Axle, I got a little carried away and said some things that I regret. I am personally sorry to you for those remarks. Have a safe trip home.

To anyone else – I would like to extend an invitation to visit this mine, and talk to my miners. I will take you underground, let you try to drill a few holes, if you get lucky we can stay under for a blast. I guarantee you will see the work miners do in a whole new light.

Fronterra – for the last time I am a hardrock miner, I have no coal dust. I use coal miners as an example because they provide the most essential form of energy we use today – electricity. Without them we would all be fucked.

Man, get busy and miss a few days around here, and all hell breaks loose.

To ALL those coming home soon..Godspeed and Thank You. I hope you and your buddies all make it home safely. Wish I could have been there with you, but the heart surgery made me 4-F.