Red - the subject of how we all develop our beliefs is an interesting one, and I appreciate the kind words and understanding.

Couldn't agree more.

As I get older I hope to cling to my pacifist beliefs, but who knows the way this world is headed.

Knight - killing is killing, and the effects on the men and women are probably the same. Cops recieve extensive time with pychiatrists to help work out the devestating effect it has on nearly everyone, I don't believe soldiers get the same benefits, although I may be wrong about that.

Madman - I have no respect for you, or anything you say. People like you (Bush, Rummy and Cheney come to mind) make me sick to my stomach. While Red and I can at least see eye to eye (we may not agree, but at least we understand where we are coming from), you will never see another point of view, never able to listen and learn.

I am not back peddling, I am apologizing for words I said were wrong. People like you (again the big three come to mind) will never admit fault, will never admit when emotions might have gotten the best of you. You got me to say exactly what you wanted, I fell into your little perverted trap.

Someday when that heart attack kills you, people from my generation will be running this country. Up until that point if we continue to have leaders like you blindly pushing down the gauntlet to war, things will change, and possibly my pacifist views will become more common.

Someday it is my dream that peace will break out, and war will be viewed as what it is -barbaric, and a thing of the past. You will never let that happen. You are too blood-thirsty, and too angry. You are the reason why peace has no chance; we will never recover from the damage done by your beloved republican leaders.

You disgust me madman, everything about you and everything you say. From defending the pedophile Foley to this conversation you do nothing/say nothing that is ever going to help this great nation. You are leading us in the wrong direction, and because you have no sense of right and wrong, you can never admit guilt or fault. Since you can never listen to new ideas, you will never get any. Since you can not fathom love and peace, and only know hatred and intolerance, you can not understand why I fight so hard against wars. You know nothing but misery.

Have a good day madman, go home have a beer, by yourself. I am conviced you have no family, and probably no friends. Anyone with your kind of attitude is destined to die alone. While that thought saddens me, I can't do anything to help; I really wish I could.

LOL...while I agree that he's a sorry bastard and a lame excuse for a human being, I didn't know he defended Foley. Doesn't surprise me...what a sicko.

That's all I'm gonna say in this thread, I'm not going to fall for one of his dumb arguments again. He has zero logic and it's like talking to a wall. He'll blatantly say things similar to "2+2 does not equal 4, they equal half of 8...so...you have no idea what you're talking about. Go Bush!"

Plus, he doesn't know the difference between "you're" and "your." Bahahah

Hey Branden....

Enough of your bullshit. Your excuses are beyond lame.

Now in your twisted mind, what you said is MY fault. The problem with people like you is you never take responsiblity for anything you say or do. Everything is always someone else's fault.

You are also a liar claiming I defended the sexual deviant Foley. I never defended that scum. The only thing I did was correct the way people on the left tried to paint the entire issue.

It is people of your political persuasion who support and protect people like Foley. If people like you had your way, every Boy Scout Troop would have a guy like Foley as Scoutmaster.

If anyone on this board has a misguided sense of right and wrong, you are clearly the guilty party.

I couldn't care less what you think of me. You are a despicable and pitiful little man who has an overinflated sense of self because you went to a mining school and sometimes the adult males let you wear a hardhat. You are an even more pitiful puke for blaming me for what you said like it was some kind of a trap. Poor baby. Now you are crying victim.

Grow up Branden.

Well said, Macaca.

Originally posted by NY:
Posted by me:
With regards to this, originally posted by NY:
I give you this:

Madman, maybe I do need to grow up. But if I grow up into something like you, I'll throw myself down the mine shaft. I just thought of another thing worth dying for - not becoming a cold-hearted, war mongering, lying, douche-bag like NY Madman.

I see you want to take this thread down to the gutter and do nothing but throw insults back and forth. Yeah, we can do that. Is that what you really want?

I'm not a war monger and I haven't lied about anything. Prove where I've lied about anything.

Branden you are a stupid ignorant fuck. Have you even seen the latest ROE that we have to follow? It's 28 pages long and I'll give you a hint, it doesn't say kill anything that is not friendly forces. You're in Colorado. I invite you to come down to the Fort Carson welcome center and tell one of the returning troops, especially one that actually had to kill an insurgent to defend themselves "welcome back killer". In fact I'll be coming back in about a week. See you there.

Axle

Wow! Roosevelt must have really hated the troops. I mean after all, he killed over 250,000 of em! In a shorter period of time. He showed particular hatred for them on June 6th, he killed 1465 in about 6 hours. What a monster he was! Truman was worse! He killed 12,500 at the Battle Of Okinawa. Its amazing!!That was in just 4 months!!! :rolleyes:

Johnson and Kennedy also really hated the troops too, killing almost 50,000, many with thier bare hands! Those monsters!!!!

Dont even get me started on Woodrow Wilson, or Abraham Lincoln. Thier hatred of the troops was almost pathological!!

18 year old "boys" might end up going to war, but they CHOOSE to enlist, there is no fucking draft so stfu

The one thing that gets me going is when some fuck stick starts bashing the military on national TV.

Oh but what Karrey (oops im not too smart since im in the Army) has three purple hearts.....in three months......two of them from self inflicted wounds....can we say fraging!!!!????

Axle...glad to hear your coming home safe and yeah that ROE is rather lengthy...nuff said!!!!!

Tim

PS-"Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood."
George S. Patton

I would love to see that ass-stomping! WOW, can you believe that, I am only a Chief in the Navy and I spelt all of my words right....Maybe I am not as dumb as John Kerry would say I am. Well, on second thought, I am not Branden, so maybe I am dumb.

Welcome back Axle, here is an internet beer from me to you.

See him there? Does that mean you're going to come back from upstanding service to your country, claiming to have intelligence, morals, and values, only to off handedly threaten to kick someone's ass because of a remark he made to you on an internet fucking message board?

The only thing you're doing with that remark, whether made out of anger, frustration, or not, is sinking to the level you "claim" Kerry put you at...which is uneducated and immoral. Don't live down to it, rise above it. I'm a veteran of the "first" Gulf War, and I gotta tell ya, that's pretty fucking disheartening.

The only people that will get mad at what Kerry said are the truly uneducated soldiers in Iraq. If you're truly intelligent and can learn to let the bullshit lay where it is, then you'll disregard his comment (no matter what context it's in), and realize that you've done your job, served your country, and that's it. I was in a mortars battalion, so I know I got at least one or two of those cocksuckers...so as far as having to kill one of those "insurgents" to defend myself? Call me a "killer"...all I'd say is "just doing my job, just what the military and my Commander in Chief paid me to do"

But passively aggressively threaten to kick Branden's ass? Come on man, that's just bullshit. You're a soldier brother, act like one and rise above the off handed bullshit remarks.

Gosh, where to start? I got back from my third deployment to the middle east about a week ago. I've never killed anyone that I know of(I'm a nurse so that would be bad). I like to hunt, so I'm definately a killer by Brandon's definition, but not in connection with the military.

I have 168 hours of college, attended a trade school for mechanics for a year, completed nursing school(not included in the college time listed above)and trained as an aircraft mechanic for 1 1/2 years (didn't get A&P due to deployment). I'd never state that I was intelligent, but other people tell me that I am all of the time.

I was making $60,000 a year when I came back on active duty in '94. probably not much money to those on this board, but it was good money in Louisiana in '94. I came back for many reasons, but mostly because I idolized my father. He is a true patriot and raised me to feel the same way.

I know Axel and think he's a great guy. There is no veiled threat there since Brandon is a talker and Axel knows that Brandon will never show up to call him a killer. If Brandon did show up and utter those words, Axel would tell him that he is welcome. Axel and I and every service member that has served does it just so we and our families can someday enjoy the very freedom that Brandon takes for granted. Brandon is a parasite. He enjoys those freedoms without paying for them. Hell, he abuses them without paying for them. Those that don't know how precious they are, since they think they come without a price, are sometimes very quick to abuse them.

Where to start?

Axel, welcome home. I would rather see you at home, safe with your family, living the good life here in CO, than anywhere else in this world.

What part of pacifist do you guys not understand? Have you ever read a post by me before with regards to war and death?

Axle, let me ask you point blank, and anyone else here who is currently in the service if they have ever met a soldier that was proud of having to take a life (someone like say a pilot with a number of kills displayed on the cockpit). Does that make them, in your eyes only, a killer? If not, how would you describe that person?

Listen guys, and listen hard cause this was a main theme to all my ramblings before this - Why should I respect those of you in the service any more than the people I listed above? This is not a rhetorical question, I would like an answer.

Edited to fix axel's name. sorry.

If you have to ask, it's not worth typing an answer.

Ask the Jews what Pacifism has done for them lately.

Good luck in life, seems like you need it.

Glad to have you guys back. Hope you get to stay a while, but my Brother-in-law is now on a 3 month rotation in Iraq. The good news is that he is about to retire, if the Army can let him go.

Brandon,
Does evil exist? If you believe that evil does not exist this thread can end. But if evil does exist, can you negotiate with evil? Can you contain evil? Can you just ignore evil?

There are people out there that want to convert us to their perverted version of Islam or kill us - period. They are brought up from a very young age to hate America and what we stand for.

I do not want my leaders to negotiate with these people for peace. In the past they have proven themselves to use that time to prepare for additional attacks and brainwash some more kids for the future.

A clear example is the Hamas attacks on Israel in the past six months. Israel moves out of Lebanon and what happens? Israel is left unprotected, tunnels are dug to move arms and and terrorists, soldiers get kidnapped and hundreds of rockets are fired at random into Israel.

Sure, Israel pushed back, but then a cease-fire came along - with demands for Israel to get out of Lebanon and stop their violence!

So those negotiations resulted in what? As far as I know - the Israeli hostages have not been returned. Israel leaves, Hamas celebrates and starts building up for the next attack. It will happen and continue to happen until the terrorists are dealt with - gone.

If you think that this is a "war" that can be fought with troops then you got another thing coming. Terrorism is a global threat, you can not draw up frontiers adn fight a conventioanl war.

I have the outmost respect and admiration for the people who are following orders, putting their lives on the line for this cause, I also believe that the war in Iraq will only fuel the call to arms by the Islamic fanatics, be a recruiting poster. Again you can not win the "war" on Terror, you can contain it. We need far more freedom for western countries to act like recently seen in pakistan, surgical strikes based on intel. Assaination of key people. STRONG preservation of our borders. A global strategy for identification of ANY person who want's the freedom of movement (read travel), beyond a passport (which can be forged). Countries who allow and harbor terrorists should be isolated in every whch way (trade, travel etc).

Finally I believe that we need to create a Global policeforce that has the power to move and investigate with umlimited access to records intel etc.

We can not continue to attempt to convert countries to Democracy who still live a century behind us. it simply will not work. Afghanistan, Iraq. are prime examples

Claus,
I forgive you about the "phat chick fridays". Gosh, that took me a long time to say. :p

Anyway. I do agree with you on some points, but I do not believe that you can contain evil, I think we need to go out and crush evil. How to do that? I do not have the answer, but a global police force is not the answer - who would they be responsible to? Who would prevent them from distributing (selling) classified information that would leave the USA vulnerable? Look at all of the issues with "UN" troops currently deployed.

I've got no issues with targeted strikes, but they need to be effective.

Personally, I think we have been running a "PC war", and we don't have the will to go out there and win. People think that we need to be "fair" in a battle situation, but I think that is crazy.

Perfect example was somone pulling the plug on nailing all of those terrorists seen at a funeral because it was in a cemetary. Or any number of examples of not attacking a Mosque - as terrorists use the grounds and building to train terrorists and stockpile weapons.

Rules of engagement seem a bit out-of-whack for me right now.

thank you i feel so much better.

My Idea contains no rules of engagement.you see em you kill em. The western Civilized world would be commited to the "multi national strike force". I lie what they did in Pakistan, my heart goes out to the "innocent" casualties but as it is with any conflict shit happens and it is to be expected. Tighten the noose, let anyone who does not want to play ball feel so isolated that they eventually might just pack it in.

You like Pakistan and what it is doing?

They made a truce with the warlords in the Western regions who are protecting Taliban and Al Qaeda.

They also recently released 2500 of the worst terrorists from their jails.

Their security agency, the ISI, is riddled with Islamic radicals. Pervez Musharraf is barely hanging on by a hair.

There is not a whole lot to like about Pakistan.

I also think your idea about a supra-national police force is very bad Claus.

Clicky

I'm aware of that bombing Claus.

In the overall picture of things and what Pakistan does to enable and help Islamic terrorism, it means very little.

You seem to be satisfied with a crumb from Pakistan when they can be giving us an entire cake.