http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/22/sprj.irq.war.main/index.html

You know what... F*ck them all! Pieces of shit, no gratitude motherf*ckers! I hope we pull out, Saddam is alive, and, takes control back, and starts killing those f*cks left and right!!!!

Forget all this foreign policy bullshit, it's time we just clam up our borders and f*ck everybody else.....

This just goes to show that religion has no place in modern society. Any society that truly wants to progress needs to shrug off all religious bullshit....

I find it interesting that anyone with knowledge of the region would have thought that there would be lasting gratitude if any at all.

I don't remember them asking the US to "help" them.

"Forget all this foreign policy bullshit, it's time we just clam up our borders and f*ck everybody else....."

I totally agree with everything to the f*ck part. I can't imagine why we are so committed to Iraq's well being and not our own. Except for their resources, of course.

Check out this week's Tom Tomorrow cartoon.

WRONG! Sorry, please try again. It is true that religion has no place in government institutions or the government establishment and that Islamic states like Iran are the threat. The United States is made up of predominantly religious people, but you still have the right to not believe in a deity if you so desire. No one is trampling on your rights. Your implication that we all have to become close minded atheists in order to evolve really shows how much you have in common with the Ayatollas.
Ayatolla = radical religious based government.
Samuel = radical ANTI-religion based government.

Thanks for playing!

Most of this anti-American shit in Iraq is originating in Tehran, Iran. They are inciting the people to form an Islamic state.

Iran’s hardline spiritual leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei set up a supreme security council to formulate a plan to prevent or foil the Americans. Palestinian groups and Syrian controlled Hezbollah are involved also.

To make matters worse, The French have been in Tehran convincing the Shi'ite Muslim clerics to contact their counterparts in Iraq to incite the people to rise up in protest against the Americans.

These Iraqi's are performing the ritual of slicing your head open with a sword. Isn't Islam wonderful?

I thought the point of the war was liberation, not occupation.

What's the problem? For months leading up to the war, the US fell over itself, adamantly expressing a desire to liberate Iraq, not control it.

So now the Iraqi citizens want the Americans to leave? Fuck me, isn't that what the Americans told the Iraqis they were going to do?

Okay, both sides have vastly different timelines (and the Iraqis do seem impatient), but come on, America promised to give the country back to the Iraqis.

They're not ungrateful. They've been ruled by a murderous tyrant for so long, they're anxious for a little self-rule right now. Wouldn't you be?

Fuck 'em all, eh, Samueul?

They got wrapped up in the riot, they don't like us but they're not as bad as the news makes it sound. People here are grateful to America for getting rid of Saddam, and as soon as we reconnect all the utilities we desrtoyed in the war they'll be alot more willing to show how grateful they are.

It's just like in America you can't judge the 90% of the good citizens by the actions of the 10% vocal extremeists.

I agree with Samueul. Ungrateful SOB's. Their US cheers lasted a long time, eh? What, one day?

Which is a better life?

Living under Saddam Hussein or living in a religious-run government like the Taliban where they cut your hands/head off for playing music? Religion has NO place in a democratic-style government that we are trying to establish.

If we let these religious whackos get a hold in Iraq, we will be back in ten years fighting them (i.e. like the Taliban).

What needs to be done is the US declare marshall law in Iraq ASAP. Set up curfews. No organized anti-US rallys. Like what was done in Germany after WWII. Stop these mulahs from brain-washing the people and riling (sp?) them up with the anti-US rhetoric. They don't even have electricity back yet and they are spouting off about the US . Which is it, they want us to protect their banks, hospitals, museums, etc. or they want us to get the F out? You cannot have it both ways. If it were not for the US they would all of be shot right now.

We need to stay in Iraq to make sure another Iran does not sprout up. Bottom line.

Stone

Don't believe the hype. This is a power struggle between the different factions within Iraq. The Shi'ite's (with outside help from Iran) are using religion as a front to aquire position/status/power in any future Iraq government. Pure and simple.

I never said a damn thing about my rights or yours to express oneself religiously. I SAID that religion has done more harm to the progress of society than help... Prove me wrong please???

Graham, speak to me about occupation after several years, not a few weeks.... If we are still "managing" things over there after a few years, then I'll agree.

To All,

I know that most may not feel that way, but it just completely pisses me off that even a few, cannot realize that they could not do their little pilgrimage until the "Coalition" unseated Saddam. It is the purest form of biting the hand that feeds you, and I have every right as an American, and a Veteran to be pissed off as hell, that these same fucks would chant that type of shit... Maybe the goal wasn't "liberation" hell I've been saying it from the start that our top priority wasn't "liberation" but the fact is, we did liberate them, and now they can do things they haven't been able to do for 25 years, and we get "Die America!" for our efforts.... Fuck em!

Samueul, I'm not disagreeing with you that it is perfectly acceptable for the US to still be there.

The utilities need to be restored, the local police force needs to be re-established, the local governments need to be put back into place, safety and security needs to be looked after . . .

All I'm saying is that I am not all that surprised, and not in any way concerned by the demonstrations. Fuck, Samueul, I'm more surprised that you were caught offguard by them!

Do you think it's really all that unrealistic for them to be fairly anxious to rule themselves? I don't. Do I think the US Army needs to be out of Iraq? Not yet. Would do more harm than good for the Iraqi people.

Of course there are going to be demonstrations. You really thought is was just going to be one big "I love America!" sit-in?

No, you're right, I am just irrated today, and this article pissed me off is all. None of what they are doing surprises me, I guess I just hoped it would be different this time.......

LOL, I was just going to post that! Need to take my own advice huh?!

I would tend to defer to Kerensky on this one since he is seeing it first hand. (right?) Mob rule is a pretty powerful tool. Especially in a society whee newfound freedoms are suddenly thrust upon you. I liken it to a kid who turns 21 and can drink for the first time. He gets piss drunk and passes out because he doesnt know his limits or when to say when because he has no reference point from which to begin. So his authority figures need to pick him up, dust him off and try to guide him in the best way possible. We werent there to guide them as "teens", so it will take a while to 'smarten' them up.

I would try to work with the clerics and religous people as much as possible. Use muslim soldiers wherever possible if they have to try to make some kind of connection. And get the infrastructure back up and running as quickly as possible.

Let's not forget our irresponsible media loves to report on shit like this and make a big deal of it.

I am sure most Iraqi's do not want an Islamic government. The smart ones know it would be worse than Saddam's government.

We have to do something about these fucking Imam clerics causing trouble though. We also have to stop the outside interference.

It seems we may have to fight Iranian troops.

According to the link below thousands of troops have infiltrated Iraq from Iran.

Read it.. it's fucked up.

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=473

Samueul, Most of our basic laws and freedoms are based on religious ideals. Even something as simple as the ancient practice of only eating "Kosher" food is a religious principal that aimed to keep the population from eating food that might be tainted or rotten. Most of our charities are religion based, (I have never seen an Atheist homeless shelter, or an Atheist mission to Africa to help those suffering from AIDS) Based on this and many other factors, its hard for me to believe that lack of religion would lead to a more intelligent, harmonious society... It would most likely lead to a society of selfish, greedy materialists who's sole motivation in life is to get one more thrill before they die.

Its your turn... describe to me just how a completely secular society would be superior to one such as ours.

(Unless you want to put an end to this line of discussion, in which case I'll gladly agree with some of what you say... I just like playing the "devil's" advocate.)

I made no such promise... Lucky me!

Thank God we don't have that now . . .

no $h!t

Yeah, it made me laugh, so I thought I'd share the ironic humor with all of you. All Atheists should love the society we live in. Fortunately for them/you, the greed and selfishness is blamed solely on the Republicans.

I'm sure he didn't mean to criticize all religions per se...

Maybe he was afraid to outright critcize Islam. After all, the lefties would jump all over him and call him a bigot.

It is pure idiocy to compare the state of current day Islam to any other religion.

Until there is a mass global reformation in Islam it will always be a huge problem. That's a fact of life and people better start realizing it instead of always sugar coating its problems.

At any given time there are roughly 20 something wars or conflicts going on in the world. Over 90% are because Muslims cannot live with any other kind of people. Some conflicts are them killing each other. We may see some of that in Iraq.

But hey.. Isn't multiculturalism wonderful?

Funny, I am atheist but by no means selfish or greedy. How can I be that way and be an atheist? How is it that I am able to be caring, grateful, humble, etc. without the taint of religion? I love my wife, I am faithful, I am responsible, blah blah blah, yet I am not religious? I am quite sure there are many many more who fit the role even more so than I, yet they are probably very good people... I think religion just like race, etc.. is a hurdle we need to overcome. Religion whether you practice it or not, is not crucial to the betterment of our society as a whole. I truly believe that... I am not saying it should be outlawed, you do what makes you happy, but it should not come up every time a society impacting issue arises....

edited to add - sorry for the late reply, I had to drive to New Jersey for the week, and I am now in my hotel room At least they gave me free high speed access while I am here.

Very well put!! Religon is doing more evil today than it is doing good. Muslims wanting to kill americans so they can die as martyrs, Catholic priests molesting young children, the Jews and the Palenstinians taking turns bombing each other and bull-dozing down houses, religous freaks kidnapping young girls and trying to make them their brides....ect..ect..ect.. Actually, when has religon done more good than bad?? I don't need it thank you!

it's such ashame religion has been hijacked by idiots. and why is it so easy for them to use politics in the name of religion. fear? power?

the problems of the world today are not caused by spirituality and faith in something, they are caused by people who inflict their will on others in the name of "religion".

if you believe in the concept of heaven/hell, i think it is easy to imagine where these 'leaders' will be going. if for nothing else than their gross hypocrisy.

hate and striking out against others are purely non-spiritual in any religion. always.

Very true, and it's not just Islam that has its idiots, Christianity has the KKK and Jerry Falwell. Ask any muslim in america if he thinks it's ok to murder. I'm sure the answer is no, even outside the US almost all religious people think that killing is wrong no matter what the reason. But you get a few maniacs screeming for American Blood and suddenly a whole religion is "Evil".

Funny this kind of ties in with the Bush/Hitler thread in the "Club House", you get a few charismatic people to get a mob going and the rest will follow.

But when the mob dispurses(sp?) people go home and think, "Why did I say kill america? I'd never do anything like that."

Well that's my $.02

Kinda like at a Quiet Riot reunion tour at a state fair . . .

The crowd of people gets into it, next thing you know, you're banging your head and screaming, "Metal health will drive you mad!! Quiet Riot rules!" . . .

But the next day, when your neck is sore, you realize, "Wait . . . what was I screaming last night? Oh, man, that's not right . . . "

Mob mentality is weird . . .

Just as a parting shot about religion and how it interacts with government....

Here are a couple of examples of secular governments that suppress all religious input.

1) The Soviet Union
2) China

Hmmm. Not exactly utopian societies, right?

Then we have some religious states.

1) Iran
2) Afganistan

Hmmm. They aren't much different are they?

The only flaw I'd say is that China and the Soviet Union attempt(ed) to suppress religion in everything, not just government. Religion *should* be supressed in government activities. Personal activities it should not - it's up to individual.

China and Russia didn't suppress religion or abandon totalitarian religious rule, they disguised it.

In Iran and Afghanistan, the Ayatollah rules according to the will of Allah . . .

In Russia and China, the Politburo rules according to the will of Communism . . .

The State is the godhead in Russia and China. People worship the state.

Yeah, its kinda like... Everyone has their own God. Whether it be a Jewish guy on a cross, the pyramid on the back of a $1 bill, communism, or Atheism. So , #1, how can you totally eliminate religion from government? #2, aren't you just replacing the "christian" religious influence with the fanatical "Athiest" religious influence? And #3, How far do you go to eliminate religious beliefs in government?

If you have a moment, please peruse the following article and tell me how the school system can be justified. Teacher cannot wear cross necklace to school. They might have a point if this chick was dragging a 4 foot cross to work with her every day. But shit... I know people who think quartz crystals will give them power and feed their auras. They wear quartz pendants around their necks all the time. That's religion. Shouldn't schools suspend or fire them as well?

It's an example of the sad state of American education. It's controlled by psychotic liberals.

If that teacher brought in deviant sex manuals or copies of the Koran she would have been applauded by school officials.

We live in a sick world.

That's fucked up.

Its a sad fucking day when the right of people to "not be offended" supercedes the right to free speech. News flash, there is no right of people to not be offended.

I'm offended by the notion of there being a right to not be offended... I think I'll sue. :rolleyes:

Do you remember the story about the girl who got sent home because the rosary was viewed as a gang symbol at the school?

That in itself, I wouldn't know. But the funny thing is, this girl argued it was a part of her religion. OK...so she's Catholic.

But she was WEARING the rosary as a necklace. Any Catholic can tell you the rosary is NOT to be worn as a necklace.

No ... don't remember that particular story.

Everyday there are stories about fucked up school administrators making ridiculous decisions. They should concentrate more on education and less on PC.

This is a good site to read some of these stories:

http://www.tonguetied.us/

You are right. The rosary is never meant to be worn around the neck.

Good point! ... take care over there and I hope to go wheelin' with you and the rest of the crew when you get back.