Ok, I might concede that American Indians walked over here first. But by sheer definition of 'Native', anyone born here is 'Native'. NOT, just American Indians. Thats what my point is.

Once again, you damn injuns with your buffalo prejudices!!! You make me sick!

Just so I get this straight, (the 'sheer definition of Native), if I break into your house, toss your furniture out the door, kill your family, and hold you at bay in the corner with a gun while my wife gives birth in your living room, my child would be "NATIVE" to your house and would therefore "earn" the rights to live in it?

I'm just checking!

Ok, you still don't get it. Nothing against you or American Indians. You want this to be personal, not me. Yes, your son would be native because he was born here, not because he's indian. I can't explain it any simpler than that.
The child would not have 'earned' anything.

I think you missed the point of his post.

Then let him explain it to me. If you are referring to the big bad white man taking your land, thats past history. Nothing is owed. NO reparations, no entitlements. Thats all bullshit too. Hell, you already have have the multi-billion dollar a year casino entitlements. Thats enought.
My part in the thread had nothing to do with this.

I "get it." I "get" your strict and sterile defination of "native." My point is two-fold:

1 - If you were born in Japan while your parents were on vacation there, then strictly speaking, you're "native" to Japan. However, to the logical, thinking, intelligent people all over the world, you are no more a native Japanese than I am.

2 - Your attempt to compare and equate Native American Indians to Native American born Europeans is ridiculous and insulting.

Personally, I was born in Wichita Kansas to a Father who is 1/2 Indian and a Mother who's mostly German. I didn't take a scholarship or any free rides based on my "heritage" because I think its ludicrous to believe you are "owed" something by today's society because of the way your ancestors were treated.

I laugh about it now, and it doesn't offend me when my hunting buddies (and those who've earned my respect) call me "Warhoop, or Featherhead." My original intent in bringing it up into this thread at all was to bring a little levity and humor to the mix.

I shoul have expected it to degenerate into the same bullshit that most threads turn into these days.

Dude it's the ALR. Duh!

As far as Native Americans go, I agree they totally got the shaft by the Europeans. I also think the reservations and any other special rights they have were earned. They were here first, and the Euros came and conquered them. It seems to be the nature of man. Come to a new place that you like, and do whatever you want to get what you want. This has been happening since the first cave men fought over the best cave to live in.

I will say that I agree that there is a point where enough is enough. I think that the difference is that we signed treaties as a government that stated there were going to certain "rights" granted to the peoples land that we "won" over. Then we broke those treaties. As with any other govt programs there is a huge amount of abuse that is going on. My boss for instance is like 1/32 Cherokee and is on the rolls. Now between her and her husband they probaly make near $500,000 per year. She continues to use Indian facilities. That seems a bit out of context as to what these programs were desinged to do.

See, now I think that's bullshit. I suppose I could move back to my "native land" and claim a stake of whatever Casinos they may have in Sedgwick county, but no amount of money in the world could entice me to move my family to the suburbs of Wichita Kansas. Besides, I worked hard in college like a lot of Blacks, Chinese, Europeans, and others with me... Now I work and I get paid for it. I "earned" it. To take hundreds of thousands of dollars "free and clear" from local gamblers because my great, great grandfather took it up the shoot from the government is preposterous to me.

I fail to understand how a $500,000 family income in 2003 makes up for some treaties that were broken in the early 1800s, especially when it goes to a family with the ways and means to make it through today's society on their own. Send that money to the alcohol rehab centers, and to the homeless shelters that see a lot of Indians that need "legitimate" help.

No one is questioning that the Native Americans were here first, but just for the sake of argument, how can one prove a certain group of "Native Americans" have absolute claim to a particular portion of land? How does anyone know for sure which tribe of Indians had what land first? Indians conquered Indians too you know.

:p

I am not a PC person generally, but they are not Indians damn it! Indians are from India.

Ok, ok...this thing went off the deep end. Pnutmnm, I never compared the Native American Indian to Native American born European. All I said was the word Native pertaining to where you were born. Consider it insulting all you want, I really don't give a damn. Hell, If your mother was mostly german and you father half indian, then YOU have very little indian blood in you. I bet I got more indian in me than you. My great great grandmother was full blood cherokee. Hey, wheres my casino check?? You want to change or slur the sterile meaning(as you said I call it)of the word Native. More Political Correctness.
By the way, anyone know how much indian you have to be to be considered on the government dole or get casino kick back. Someone said their boss had 1/32? I just don't see how anyone with so little indian blood in them could be so upset about this.

I loooooooooooove Fridays!

Me Too.........

Here is a simple way to keep it straight:

People from India= Dots not feathers

Native Americans= Feathers not dots

So how many generations should we have to go back before we are considered "Native?"
I was born here(1969), my father was born here(1949), My grandfather was born here(1919), My Great-great Grandfather was born here(1895). My Great great great grandfather was born here(1875). And his family came over here from Ireland in 1848. (fuckin potatos). That 5 generations.

I realize that the Indians were were for many more generations. But where do you draw the line? I have no ties to Ireland other than the way I look. I have never been there. All I know is this country. I feel pretty much like a native.

Where do you do your math? If his father is half Indian, that makes him at least 1/4. If your great great grandmother is, that makes you what, maybe 1/16 (if nobody else is)?

Supposedly I have some Indian from my mother's side of the family. Where's MY casino check?!

Shut up, Mr. "I can't get enough hate votes!"

My ancestors were here early enough that they fought for independence in the American Revolution . . .

My father was 1/2. Therefore, I am 1/4.

You're great grandmother was full, your grandmother was 1/2, your mother was 1/4, YOU are 1/8 AND you are a dumbass.

Furthermore, you compared (or equated by implication) the Native Americans to Euro-born Americans when you wrote:

Lastly, I stated very clearly that I was not and I'm STILL not upset by this. Its kind of fun watching this thread evolve though. Sort of justifies my signature.

Screw you.

I can't believe I lost that vote . . . I'm soooooo sick about it . . .

Damn , I was about ready to give you a small assist but you had to go and blow it with that. The great great grandmother thing gives you 1/16th as opposed to his 1/4 . So he's got much more indianness than you do.

The word native , by definition means associated by birth. So in literal terms it can be applied to anyone born in a certain place. Indigenous is probably a stronger word to more accurately describe what we refer to as Native Americans. Since it's more directly has to do with place of origin.

I think there is no doubt in anyone's mind that when you refer to a Native American you are refering to the peoples that inhabited the area now known as the U.S.

If ANYONE in this country has a legitimate beef with their treatment , it's them. From the east to the midwest they were manipulated out of their territory and lifesyle by Europeans determined to drive them out while on the west they were coerced into a life of servitude and second class citicenship by the Spanish and their missionaries.

Don't be too sad... you still have our "hate" to keep you strong!

I'm gonna double-down on that 14, hoss . . .

Can I get a scotch and soda?