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#205426 - 12/05/03 12:12 PM Re: The Tools of Big Brother
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8375
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by Samueul:
You think we actually went to the moon!?
Have you been watching Capricorn One?
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"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#205427 - 12/05/03 02:52 PM Re: The Tools of Big Brother
Andre the Giant Offline
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Registered: 28/06/01
Posts: 2081
Loc: Cape Girardeau, MO
Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:
Quote:
Originally posted by Andre the Giant:

[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:
[b]Blah, blah, blah... Why is it the government is all for increasing searches/surveillance on the American public, yet is against 100% traceability for firearms? Criminals still use them, right?

confused
Just what kind of fool proof technology do you propose for this "100% traceability" fairy tale you believe in? How are you going to put this device on all of those guns which are already in the hands of criminals? I doubt that they will just show up at the police station.[/b]
1) I'd appreciate if you're going to quote me, you use a direct quote. I don't remember using the words "Blah, blah, blah". Even Madman wouldn't sink as low.

2) If we as a country can put a man of the moon, I'm sure somebody (with government intervention if necessary) could come up with a better system for the traceability of firearms. What it all boils down to is just how important is it to the American public to keep firearms out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them? Please don't bring up the same tired argument of comparing firearms to knives, baseball bats, or other objects that can be used to kill, it's much easier to stop a criminal who has a knife or bat, instead of an assault weapon.[/b]
Geez, you're a touchy one today Sean.

Just saying that there has to be a better way isn't an answer to my question. I'd like to hear some ideas about how we can know the whereabouts of every firearm in the US without infringing on the right to privacy. Who's going to pay for it?

Blah blah... I thought that was funny... confused
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#205428 - 12/05/03 02:56 PM Re: The Tools of Big Brother
GrayHam Offline
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Registered: 17/04/01
Posts: 8849
Quote:
Originally posted by Andre the Giant:
Blah blah... I thought that was funny... confused
Shoulda used "yada yada" . . .
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#205429 - 12/05/03 02:58 PM Re: The Tools of Big Brother
Andre the Giant Offline
Member

Registered: 28/06/01
Posts: 2081
Loc: Cape Girardeau, MO
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Anyone here who thinks the government is infringing on their personal rights is either an idiot or guilty of something.
You are what's wrong with the Republican party. You are more concerned about supporting the president, and less concerned about individual freedom and liberty. There are plenty of people who disagree with the current administration. If an official thinks their activity is "suspicious" should they be allowed to trample on personal rights? I don't think that jives with the constitution. When in doubt, we should choose in favor of liberty, not in favor of big brother government.

The terrorists out there can be singled out without granting the government more power. Well, maybe a little more power. I think that the government should be allowed to "racially profile" as much as it wants when it comes to arabs, redneck skinheads, and the irish. I hate the irish. [LOL]
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You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer.
--Frank Zappa

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#205430 - 12/05/03 08:29 PM Re: The Tools of Big Brother
Sean Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 2089
Loc: Billerica, MA
Quote:
Originally posted by Andre the Giant:

Geez, you're a touchy one today Sean.
I'm sorry, I thought you were making fun of me personally because of my "wacko" statement about 100% traceability of firearms. I've had a tough week and a half so far with the FDA at our company and all. Damn Biennial inspections!

Quote:
Just saying that there has to be a better way isn't an answer to my question. I'd like to hear some ideas about how we can know the whereabouts of every firearm in the US without infringing on the right to privacy. Who's going to pay for it?
Firearms are not my forte, but for instance, there's got to be a way to identify a firearm such that someone can't erase the ID number. In addition, make future firearms such that if this permanent ID number is tampered with, the weapon will not fire, with the "key" replacement parts coming from the manufacturer only (like certain car radios). And possibly put all gun owners data into a central country wide (Federal) database for ALL law enforcement agencies having access. If you're not a criminal, you have nothing to hide, right? As for who will pay for this future technology, the people in this country are already paying, paying in violent crime and loss of lives.
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#205431 - 13/05/03 06:44 AM Re: The Tools of Big Brother
Andre the Giant Offline
Member

Registered: 28/06/01
Posts: 2081
Loc: Cape Girardeau, MO
Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:
Firearms are not my forte, but for instance, there's got to be a way to identify a firearm such that someone can't erase the ID number. In addition, make future firearms such that if this permanent ID number is tampered with, the weapon will not fire, with the "key" replacement parts coming from the manufacturer only (like certain car radios).
Those are not bad ideas. I personally like the idea of a firearm that only will fire when used by the owner or maybe the owner and a spouse, etc. I know some technology is being developed by the gun companies along this line. Also, a permanent ID number system would be fine with me.
Quote:
And possibly put all gun owners data into a central country wide (Federal) database for ALL law enforcement agencies having access. If you're not a criminal, you have nothing to hide, right? As for who will pay for this future technology, the people in this country are already paying, paying in violent crime and loss of lives.
As you can probably guess, I don't care for the idea of being dropped into a federal database just because I like to target practice. But we've been over that before. I hope your week gets better. Yada yada.
wink
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You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer.
--Frank Zappa

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#205432 - 13/05/03 07:59 AM Re: The Tools of Big Brother
NY Madman Offline
Member
*

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Andre the Giant:

You are what's wrong with the Republican party. You are more concerned about supporting the president, and less concerned about individual freedom and liberty. There are plenty of people who disagree with the current administration. If an official thinks their activity is "suspicious" should they be allowed to trample on personal rights? I don't think that jives with the constitution. When in doubt, we should choose in favor of liberty, not in favor of big brother government.

The terrorists out there can be singled out without granting the government more power. Well, maybe a little more power. I think that the government should be allowed to "racially profile" as much as it wants when it comes to arabs, redneck skinheads, and the irish. I hate the irish.
Believe me I am very critical of the Republican Party in many aspects. I am also critical of the Bush administration in many aspects also.

I am against The Patriot II act. The original Patriot Act was needed desperately. It has an expiration date if anyone has not noticed.

The Patriot Act was needed because whether you believe it or not there is a fifth column of lawyers in this country who would do anything to protect the so called liberties or rights of any individual who wants to do harm to this country.

Regarding singling out the terrorists without giving law enforcement some tools to do this, I think you are naive. A lot has changed in this country... for the worse.

We have an insane culture in this country where old ladies in wheelchairs are frisked in airports and some states are giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants. You actually think the current PC insanity in this country makes law enforcements job easier? The Federal government in many ways is its own worst enemy.

No one wants big brother government. Until common sense returns to our society and we are willing to point a finger at a certain segment of the population and proclaim there is a problem, and until members of that segment step up to the plate and admit there is a problem within their segment, everyone might suffer.

[Finger] regarding your Irish comment. If you weren't aware of the fact, more Irish in America are on the left of the poltical spectrum then the right.

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#205433 - 13/05/03 12:55 PM Re: The Tools of Big Brother
Andre the Giant Offline
Member

Registered: 28/06/01
Posts: 2081
Loc: Cape Girardeau, MO
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Andre the Giant:
Blah blah blah... I think that the government should be allowed to "racially profile" as much as it wants when it comes to arabs, redneck skinheads, and the irish. I hate the irish.
Believe me I am very critical of the Republican Party in many aspects. I am also critical of the Bush administration in many aspects also.

I am against The Patriot II act. The original Patriot Act was needed desperately. It has an expiration date if anyone has not noticed.
Yeah, that's set in stone... until congress decides to extend it.

Quote:
The Patriot Act was needed because whether you believe it or not there is a fifth column of lawyers in this country who would do anything to protect the so called liberties or rights of any individual who wants to do harm to this country.
Those aren't the lawyers we should be concerned about. We should be bad mouthing the lawyers that sue companies like McDonalds because their food is bad for you. Even a serial killer deserves legal representation. As far as non citizens go... If we are going to bring them here for trial, they should be tried using our rules.

Quote:
Regarding singling out the terrorists without giving law enforcement some tools to do this, I think you are naive. A lot has changed in this country... for the worse.

We have an insane culture in this country where old ladies in wheelchairs are frisked in airports and some states are giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants. You actually think the current PC insanity in this country makes law enforcements job easier? The Federal government in many ways is its own worst enemy.
Last things first, the federal government is in many ways our freedom's worst enemy. As far as the PC insanity goes, I can't stand Political correctness. As far as law enforcement's difficulty, that's exactly why a certain amount of "racial profiling" or even "religious profiling" should be allowed, particularly visitors from other countries. Law enforcement's job is difficult, it should be made easier. But the government should not grant itself new sweeping powers to monitor its citizens. The excuse that "times have changed" is no excuse to grant the authorities the right to infringe on our rights.

Quote:
No one wants big brother government. Until common sense returns to our society and we are willing to point a finger at a certain segment of the population and proclaim there is a problem, and until members of that segment step up to the plate and admit there is a problem within their segment, everyone might suffer.
I agree that Muslims need to get control of their religion.

Quote:
[Finger] regarding your Irish comment. If you weren't aware of the fact, more Irish in America are on the left of the poltical spectrum then the right.
My comment about the Irish was a joke. Their degree of liberalism seems to correspond with where they live as much as anything else. You should get out and see the country. :p
_________________________
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer.
--Frank Zappa

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