http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=st...ti_bush_t_shirt

So he can wear the shirt because not being allowed to violates his First Amendments rights. Yeah.

Does that mean I can wear a 'KKK rules' shirt? Or how about a 'Homos spread disease'? Or 'Illegals should be shot as they cross the border' shirt? Is that MY First Amendment right?

My right to wear what I want, say what I want, do what I want is limited by when it infringes on the rights of others. So personally I don't think he should be allowed to wear that shirt at school as it expresses an opinion some might find offensive, vulgar and rude.

High school is not a place for expressing ones self. It should be a place to get an education, period. Self expression comes with college life....

what a damn douche bag.
self-expression is great, just keep it to yourself.

damn hippies...
david

As long as it plays both ways, I don't care what you wear on your shirt.

Actually, it IS your First Amendment right. Does the name Fred Phelps mean anything to you? The Kansas preacher that goes to gay funerals with signs chanting "God Hates Fags"? He's not arrested. Because he's within his First Amendment rights.

Or how about when the KKK marches on the statehouse when there's a debate about the Confederate flag? They're not arrested. They're within their First Amendment rights.

So, yes you COULD wear those shirts. You wouldn't be arrested. You'd probably just get the crap kicked out of you. So I wouldn't advise wearing them on the street. It's just not a smart thing to do.

Look, when are you conservatives going to learn that just because it offends YOU doesn't make it against the First Amendment? Let me put it in simpler terms. For the same reason this kid can wear this shirt, someone else can wear a shirt with Bible verses on it. If one goes, the other goes. So, thank your lucky stars that the judge allows the shirt.

Wow, I was under the impression that HS was for expressing yourself and being an individual, and college was for getting drunk and getting chicks and (if you were lucky) getting drunk chicks.

i agree, but all i'm sayin' is look at the picture of that freakin' douche, he is totally lovin' every minute of this, kids like that who seem totally self-absorbed and think they are the coolest should be tarred and feathered and covered in salt then frozen...

You act like this is a conservative phenomenon...

Elementry student barred from wearing t-shirt depicting US soldier

Student suspended for wearing "Abortion is Homicide" shirt.

Student suspended for wearing "Redneck Pride" T-Shirt sues (Court decided correctly here as well)

...There's so many more...

Seems that it's not just conservatives who get their panties in a bunch over something not in line with their views.

It's not a landmark decision by the court anyhow. This was decided in 1969, by the SCOTUS... Tinker vs. Des Moines. Students have a first ammendment right to express themselves so long as it does not cause material and substantial disruption, and interfere with other students' rights.

I have no problem with him wearing that shirt. I have a problem with the message, I think it is misguided and flat out false. I am not offended by it. But hey, thats my problem. It would be as if I wore a shirt that said "Michael Bolton-International Terrorist." I may believe it is true, he has terrorized the airwaves for years in my opinion. But alas, it is still just an opinion.

If it were a KKK shirt I would have a problem because that effects a whole group of people, not just one individual.

"Dearborn High said it worried about inflaming passions at the suburban Detroit school, where a majority of students are Arab-American."

How the hell is depicting the AMERICAN president as a terrorist going to inflame ARAB-Americans? Dumbasses... If it's going to inflame anyone, it would potentially be ANY American, regardless of origin.

Brent

Just more Liberal Democrat bullshit...

I think you all are missing something very obvious here.
Since when does a kid in high school have a true understanding of politcs.
Hell Im 30 with a PolySci degree from UCLA and consider myself pretty well read on the state of the nation and still I don't know enough about everything going on. Plus I have more common sense than to wear a "Look at me i am an attention whore" shirt.
The fact is High School kids for the most part only know what a teacher or their parents think about politcs.

To say that, yes. To violate my rights with his screaming? NO. Hell no.

As long as its an orderly assembly and not screwing up traffic and causing folks to have to leave work/home. Sure.

Agreed.

In your first sentence you are completely correct, except this has nothing to do with Lib vs. Conserv. Does your invoking a 'right' allow you to violate one of mine? If so, how do you get that to balance.

You have a right to gather and protest. Does that give you the right to show up on my street and stand in front my house during your protest? Not if it violates my right to peace and quite it doesn't.

How do you work that balance?

I think college is both!

THANK YOU!!!

I couldn't agree more.
david

OK, I detest Fred Phelps. But how is his screaming violating your rights?

If he did that while I was at a dead gay friends funeral I would violate his rights, namely the right for his ass not to have my foot in it. He is a complete zealot who has perverted his religion. According to the Bible God doesn't hate fags.

Do I not have the right to attend a funeral in peace? Do I not have the right to be left alone, not to be bothered by other people?
Case in point: Guy up North had a flag pole with a US Flag he flew everyday. Neighbor complained that it was too noisy. Court made him take it down. (Was in the news sometime ago.)

So how do you find a balance between the 2 'rights'?

Get two 'lefts' up against them to argue them into a seizure.

That's what I'M attempting to do, anyway.

So Moby, in that case I could show up in your town and 'peaceably but nosily' gather in front of your house? Maybe yell some choice words at you...try and get under your skin. You wouldnt feel that is a violation of your rights?

Nope..no violation of my rights. I'd think it was annoying as hell, but not violating my rights. You could stand right in front of my house on the sidewalk. The minute you step into my yard is another story.

Note - it would also depend on WHAT you are saying - if it were libel/slander, then it would be a actionable issue - however, you cannot stop someone from saying something libelous BEFORE they say it. That's Prior Restraint, and it's illegal.

Moby is right on this one. That is the point of free speech and our right to assemble and protest.

Wrong, you don't have freedom of speech in public schools. Just refer to any instance involving prayer during school hours. We were never allowed to wear any shirts containing weed, booze, naked people, or anything else like that. The kid should not be allowed to wear tbat shirt to school.

If I was one of those kids at that school, I would have a shirt made saying something like "I want to rape and kill the principal." Get a nice photo of him on the shirt....I wonder how that would be received.

Actually, you DO have freedom of speech in schools - it was decided long ago. You can wear a shirt with bible quotes on it. You can pray all you want in school. You can hang a cross on your locker.

What you CANNOT do, however is disrupt classwork. Also, something that may be considered "inappropriate" or "harmful." The bush shirt hardly falls under those two criteria. Just like a t-shirt having some biblical quote doesn't.

A gathering of students for bible study sanctioned by the school is NOT the same thing. (edit to add: if it's after school hours, and not precluding school activities, I have no issue with a prayer group using a room)

Here's a link for you about the cases deciding this:

Freedom of Speech in schools

Oh, for the love of . . . :rolleyes:

You can pray in school. You can pray to your heart's content.
You can run up and down the halls, chanting the Lord's Prayer if you want to, as long as you don't interrupt classes . . .

What I think you're clumsily trying to illustrate is that the schools cannot endorse group prayer. The schools cannot allow (or force) someone to get on the PA every morning, and lead everyone in a rousing rendition of "Hallelujah, Amen!"
That's where the courts have stepped in, I believe.

But no one is going to bumrush Johnny on the playground and hold him for the authorities if he's praying to himself . . .

As long as you don't disturb studies or classes, pray all you want . . .

It's a t-shirt. If he is even coming to school sober, without a weapon, then let him take his seat and teach him something.
Big fuckin' whoop . . .

tHat

Probably not very well. That's a direct threat on someone, and not a political statement.

Sometimes the ALR is the most entertaining room on XOC!