http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=st...ti_bush_t_shirt

So he can wear the shirt because not being allowed to violates his First Amendments rights. Yeah.

Does that mean I can wear a 'KKK rules' shirt? Or how about a 'Homos spread disease'? Or 'Illegals should be shot as they cross the border' shirt? Is that MY First Amendment right?

My right to wear what I want, say what I want, do what I want is limited by when it infringes on the rights of others. So personally I don't think he should be allowed to wear that shirt at school as it expresses an opinion some might find offensive, vulgar and rude.

High school is not a place for expressing ones self. It should be a place to get an education, period. Self expression comes with college life....

what a damn douche bag.
self-expression is great, just keep it to yourself.

damn hippies...
david

As long as it plays both ways, I don't care what you wear on your shirt.

Actually, it IS your First Amendment right. Does the name Fred Phelps mean anything to you? The Kansas preacher that goes to gay funerals with signs chanting "God Hates Fags"? He's not arrested. Because he's within his First Amendment rights.

Or how about when the KKK marches on the statehouse when there's a debate about the Confederate flag? They're not arrested. They're within their First Amendment rights.

So, yes you COULD wear those shirts. You wouldn't be arrested. You'd probably just get the crap kicked out of you. So I wouldn't advise wearing them on the street. It's just not a smart thing to do.

Look, when are you conservatives going to learn that just because it offends YOU doesn't make it against the First Amendment? Let me put it in simpler terms. For the same reason this kid can wear this shirt, someone else can wear a shirt with Bible verses on it. If one goes, the other goes. So, thank your lucky stars that the judge allows the shirt.

Wow, I was under the impression that HS was for expressing yourself and being an individual, and college was for getting drunk and getting chicks and (if you were lucky) getting drunk chicks.

i agree, but all i'm sayin' is look at the picture of that freakin' douche, he is totally lovin' every minute of this, kids like that who seem totally self-absorbed and think they are the coolest should be tarred and feathered and covered in salt then frozen...

You act like this is a conservative phenomenon...

Elementry student barred from wearing t-shirt depicting US soldier

Student suspended for wearing "Abortion is Homicide" shirt.

Student suspended for wearing "Redneck Pride" T-Shirt sues (Court decided correctly here as well)

...There's so many more...

Seems that it's not just conservatives who get their panties in a bunch over something not in line with their views.

It's not a landmark decision by the court anyhow. This was decided in 1969, by the SCOTUS... Tinker vs. Des Moines. Students have a first ammendment right to express themselves so long as it does not cause material and substantial disruption, and interfere with other students' rights.

I have no problem with him wearing that shirt. I have a problem with the message, I think it is misguided and flat out false. I am not offended by it. But hey, thats my problem. It would be as if I wore a shirt that said "Michael Bolton-International Terrorist." I may believe it is true, he has terrorized the airwaves for years in my opinion. But alas, it is still just an opinion.

If it were a KKK shirt I would have a problem because that effects a whole group of people, not just one individual.

"Dearborn High said it worried about inflaming passions at the suburban Detroit school, where a majority of students are Arab-American."

How the hell is depicting the AMERICAN president as a terrorist going to inflame ARAB-Americans? Dumbasses... If it's going to inflame anyone, it would potentially be ANY American, regardless of origin.

Brent

Just more Liberal Democrat bullshit...

I think you all are missing something very obvious here.
Since when does a kid in high school have a true understanding of politcs.
Hell Im 30 with a PolySci degree from UCLA and consider myself pretty well read on the state of the nation and still I don't know enough about everything going on. Plus I have more common sense than to wear a "Look at me i am an attention whore" shirt.
The fact is High School kids for the most part only know what a teacher or their parents think about politcs.

To say that, yes. To violate my rights with his screaming? NO. Hell no.

As long as its an orderly assembly and not screwing up traffic and causing folks to have to leave work/home. Sure.

Agreed.

In your first sentence you are completely correct, except this has nothing to do with Lib vs. Conserv. Does your invoking a 'right' allow you to violate one of mine? If so, how do you get that to balance.

You have a right to gather and protest. Does that give you the right to show up on my street and stand in front my house during your protest? Not if it violates my right to peace and quite it doesn't.

How do you work that balance?

I think college is both!

THANK YOU!!!

I couldn't agree more.
david

OK, I detest Fred Phelps. But how is his screaming violating your rights?

If he did that while I was at a dead gay friends funeral I would violate his rights, namely the right for his ass not to have my foot in it. He is a complete zealot who has perverted his religion. According to the Bible God doesn't hate fags.

Do I not have the right to attend a funeral in peace? Do I not have the right to be left alone, not to be bothered by other people?
Case in point: Guy up North had a flag pole with a US Flag he flew everyday. Neighbor complained that it was too noisy. Court made him take it down. (Was in the news sometime ago.)

So how do you find a balance between the 2 'rights'?

Get two 'lefts' up against them to argue them into a seizure.

That's what I'M attempting to do, anyway.

So Moby, in that case I could show up in your town and 'peaceably but nosily' gather in front of your house? Maybe yell some choice words at you...try and get under your skin. You wouldnt feel that is a violation of your rights?

Nope..no violation of my rights. I'd think it was annoying as hell, but not violating my rights. You could stand right in front of my house on the sidewalk. The minute you step into my yard is another story.

Note - it would also depend on WHAT you are saying - if it were libel/slander, then it would be a actionable issue - however, you cannot stop someone from saying something libelous BEFORE they say it. That's Prior Restraint, and it's illegal.

Moby is right on this one. That is the point of free speech and our right to assemble and protest.

Wrong, you don't have freedom of speech in public schools. Just refer to any instance involving prayer during school hours. We were never allowed to wear any shirts containing weed, booze, naked people, or anything else like that. The kid should not be allowed to wear tbat shirt to school.

If I was one of those kids at that school, I would have a shirt made saying something like "I want to rape and kill the principal." Get a nice photo of him on the shirt....I wonder how that would be received.

Actually, you DO have freedom of speech in schools - it was decided long ago. You can wear a shirt with bible quotes on it. You can pray all you want in school. You can hang a cross on your locker.

What you CANNOT do, however is disrupt classwork. Also, something that may be considered "inappropriate" or "harmful." The bush shirt hardly falls under those two criteria. Just like a t-shirt having some biblical quote doesn't.

A gathering of students for bible study sanctioned by the school is NOT the same thing. (edit to add: if it's after school hours, and not precluding school activities, I have no issue with a prayer group using a room)

Here's a link for you about the cases deciding this:

Freedom of Speech in schools

Oh, for the love of . . . :rolleyes:

You can pray in school. You can pray to your heart's content.
You can run up and down the halls, chanting the Lord's Prayer if you want to, as long as you don't interrupt classes . . .

What I think you're clumsily trying to illustrate is that the schools cannot endorse group prayer. The schools cannot allow (or force) someone to get on the PA every morning, and lead everyone in a rousing rendition of "Hallelujah, Amen!"
That's where the courts have stepped in, I believe.

But no one is going to bumrush Johnny on the playground and hold him for the authorities if he's praying to himself . . .

As long as you don't disturb studies or classes, pray all you want . . .

It's a t-shirt. If he is even coming to school sober, without a weapon, then let him take his seat and teach him something.
Big fuckin' whoop . . .

tHat

Probably not very well. That's a direct threat on someone, and not a political statement.

Sometimes the ALR is the most entertaining room on XOC!

That guy should have called the ACLU and went to a higher court. Unless the flag was made out of the same material as plastic grocery bags it wouldn't be making that much noise in the wind.

I that article had been posted here I would have been up in arms about it.

I think that is a Bush-ism.

The ACLU probably would not have taken the case. They only like representing baby rapers and atheists now it seems.

Now you know that's not true.

I wondered what their view was on gun rights. Pretty interesting really. They are neutral.

ACLU Position on Gun Rights

You'd be surprised how much noise a flag can make flapping in the wind, not to mention the clips on the rope banging against a steel flagpole...

Brent

So basically Moby they take a leftist position on the ammendment. They used to be a great organization. Now they are run by extreme leftists that are more interested in protecting the 'rights' of groups like Nambla, while ignoring the rights of the majority. They pick and choose what rights they want to support based on whether or not the case fits with their left-leaning agenda.

I agree, flags flapping in the wind can be really noisy, but to force him to take it down? I think that's a bit much. It can't be that windy every single day.

Exactly, why not just wrap some duct tape around the metal that is making the noise? The nieghbor had an agenda.

NAMBLA is something I will never understand. That's just bizarre.

But they don't protect the rights of groups. They try to protect the rights of individuals - and of course that means against the majority - regardless of what that majority happens to be.

I don't think it's an agenda - that word gets used WAY too often by the conservatives.

I think it's just that the neighbor is a whiney asshole.

Sounds about right.

Who cares what t-shirt some kid wears anyway? You think he's the only one who thinks that statement is true? Do you think he's changing the way people think about Bush? Or does it just bother you that someone would wear that and, therefore, shouldn't be allowed to?

Get over it already. :rolleyes:

Exactly. I'm going to go put on my Che Guevara shirt right now!

Those are some pretty interesting Opinions.
I don't think the ACLU would have bothered representing the man in court but I'm sure they would have been happy to point him to a few laws or groups that would have helped him out.

Actually I hear those are pretty popular. I guess the only reason they aren't banned are because nobody nowadays know who Che Guevara is.

The ACLU is ruining this country!

Opinions? We read about it in black and white every day. It is hardly an opinion.

hey "homos spread disease" is a good tshirt idea!

So bored you're bringing back a dead topic?

Well said. Spoken like a genuine ignorant asshole.

:rolleyes:

They don't???

Oh look, another stupid ass chimes in. Are you starting a club?

:rolleyes:

so is "Bobby_X is an ignorant asshole"

lol, I'm ignorant? Don't you prove your own ignorance by you accusing me of being ignorant? Or do you not know what ignorant means? Homosexuals do in fact spread disease, and they are in fact responsible for the spread of aids. Obviously they are not the only vector for aids, but they are largely responsible for it.

Additionally, the statement is further correct because homos do indeed carry and spread disease. Straight people can also spread and carry disease, but that is no the issue at hand.

So, maybe "insensitive" or "asshole" would have been a better insult for you to make towards me? Regardless, try to use your brain before insulting me :-)

lol you know the statement you made implies that Homosexuals are solely responsible for the spread of aids... if you don't then you are even more ignorant.

After seeing this:

I must conclude:

Yes...very much so.

Where exactly have you read anything stating as *fact* that it even originated in the gay community? Come to think of it...I don't think it's been the gay community spreading it in Africa.

Are blacks largely responsible for Trichomoniasis? Are whites largely responsible for scabies? Here's an interesting one: Heterosexuals are TWICE as likely to have nongonococcal urethritis as homosexual men. Damn...we straight guys spread disease and shit worse than others!

Using your logic, it must be so:

NIH study on STD\'s

Here's another from NIH:
(note that in June, 1982, only one year after the first rumblings of AIDS, it was found in homosexuals, hemophiliacs, IV drug users and Haitians. NOT just gays. Damn...maybe it was those fucking Haitians! And January 1983, it showed up in heterosexual couples as well. Screening of blood didn't occur until several years later - gee...were gays responsible for that, too?)

AIDS Timeline

I thought the spreading of AIDS was due to men of all walks of life having sex with apes.

Nobody knows. I seriously doubt we'll ever know. One of the NIH pages suggested it may have passed from apes to humans several times, possibly as early as 100 years ago. But they don't have a clue *how* it passed. It could have been using the animal for food, using the animal to develop vaccines (a polio vaccine was suspect for a time), or yes, even some twit screwing one.

AIDS was spread throughout North America and Europe by homosexual men. It still is the prime source of infection.

They even traced it back to one French Canadian flight attendant. It was introduced to the North American populace by promiscuous homosexuals in bath houses.

Bisexuals and intravenous drug addicts are responsible for the crossover to the straight population. Some got it from the blood supply but that was taken care of in the 80's.

AIDS is and will always be primarily a homosexual disease in the West. A very small percentage of people have gotten it from heterosexual contact regardless of the propaganda that has been put forth by homosexual advocates. Everytime a heterosexual has gotten AIDS there is a drug addict, gay or bisexual contact somewhere in a partners sexual history.

As far as Africa goes.... AIDS is prevelant in the heterosexual population because of the culture over there. In most African cultures females live in a "sex on demand" type culture that Western woman do not endure. It is a females "duty" to satisfy men sexually over there. They have little say in it in most African cultures.

28% in 2001 is hardly a "very small percentage." ( source ) Regardless of people's past history, it is still 28% from heterosexual contact. And to say "everytime" is a bit presumptuous. It is EXTREMELY rare for a guy to get it from a female. Hell, they don't even keep track of female-to-female transmission, according to the CDC's tables.

Heterosexuals are promiscuous, too. Just ask Clinton.

The fact is, it's already out there. People need to stop bitching about "where" it came from, and keep working on how to stop it.

The fact is my post is still 100% legit, and I was called ignorant for no reason. You homosexual-sympathetic people out there can continue to call me ignorant, but the truth remains that calling me ignorant was not the appropriate insult. At least insult me properly.

By the way, if you do insult me properly you will find yourself in a one sided flame war. I have no internet ego, and whatever things you think you can say that are 'mean' or would 'own' me will just end up making you look childish. I'm 22, so if you act more childish than I, then you have a lot of growing up to do.

Todrick, I love the shirt. Will you send me one? I would honestly wear it.

sure, that will be $29.95 you can paypal it to me.

I'm not sure of the validity of the site in your link. The truth is it is hard to get accurate data regarding AIDS and it's sources out of fear of offending the homosexual lobby. They don't even classify contact as homosexual anymore. Most of the time it is described as "MSM" contact.

Even if that 28% figure were true, what is the breakdown of females to males within that 28%. Females get it from having sex with bisexual males. A more pertinant figure would be... how many heterosexual males are getting AIDS from heterosexual contact. Are they afraid to reveal these figures? I don't see any. The infection rate for intravenous drug users has sharply declined over the years so we are basically left with homosexuals and bisexuals as the main culprits in the spread of AIDS in North America and Europe.

Another thing I find very peculiar is they always break down the infection rates by race. Blacks have a higher per capita infection rate. Why is that? They have the same anatomy as whites. Could it be a cultural problem? Is this whitey's fault? There are some who try to spin it that way. Inquiring minds want to know.

Yeah sure... heterosexuals are promiscuous. No where near the rate of promiscuity amongst male homosexuals. Have you ever seen a heterosexual bath house? I'm sure lesbians don't even have places like that and if they do are probably extremely rare. Even female deviants have limits to their perversion.

I disagree with your statement regarding people need to stop bitching about where the disease is coming from. People need MORE information about where it comes from and they need to be told the TRUTH. Especially women. If they can avoid bisexual men then their rate of infection would drastically be reduced and there would be fewer children born with this disease. Too bad about the gay advocates being offended. They can go to hell.

This is another example of political correctness playing games with innocent lives.

Another thing regarding AIDS that has to stop is the plethora of these "so-called" AIDS charities that are actually front groups for homosexual lobbying organizations. They collect money and dupe the public and donors into thinking the funds are going towards research when a large part of the money goes to lobby politicians in Washington and the state capitols in passing an ever increasing amount of gay legislation.

Again, it hasn't *sharply* declined for any group. For drug users, it has remained fairly constant. The figures are on the CDC website: CDC AIDS Cases by exposure category

Quote:

Yeah sure... heterosexuals are promiscuous. No where near the rate of promiscuity amongst male homosexuals. Have you ever seen a heterosexual bath house?

Yes I have. The legal ones are in Nevada (but at least there, they get checked regularly). I'm curious where there is data showing the comparison of promiscousness between ANY group.

Quote:

If they can avoid bisexual men then their rate of infection would drastically be reduced and there would be fewer children born with this disease.

There aren't THAT many bisexual men out there to "drastically" redue the infection rate. But...that did make me notice one thing - I don't see anywhere on the CDC website showing how many babies are born with it. The closest thing is an article saying the CDC estimated it to be 280-370 in 2000 (consider in 1991 is was about 1760 in 1991). Source

Mobycat, so you are pretty familiar with a lot of bisexual men?

Actually, no. I can't think of any I know off the top of my head. I did know a number of bisexual women. I know quite a number of gay men, and not one of them is promiscuous. I know more promiscuous straight people than promiscuous gay people.

In response to Dipstick's comment from a few posts back that

This is, quite possibly, the most ignorant comment I've ever read on the board. You obviously have never studied this crises, nor educated yourself before you make a comment about it.

The reason that AIDS is wiping out Africans at an alarming rate is because to suggest to African men that they should wear a condom for safety is a complete affront to their cultural heritage. In a farming community, the more children that you have, the more workers you have on the farm. Using a condom, to them, is one of the most vile things you could do.

So educating Africans about protecting themselves from the AIDS virus is incredibly difficult. Add to that the fact that many of the Africans are dying in their thirties and fourties, and you've got an agricultural crises of biblical proportions. Knowledge passed down for thousands of years, from generation to generation is being wiped out, because there's no "older generation" left to teach the children.

So, please, before you start blaming African women, educate yourself Dipstick. Then we'll talk.

Moby... One would think you are a paid apologist, spin doctor or lobbyist for homosexual advocates.

The figures for IV drug users has declined over the years. Compare them over time since they started keeping records of AIDS.

Another thing regarding the CDC... I have less and less trust in this agency as time goes by. They have become a highly politicized government agency instead of a first line defense in protecting the public from disease. They waste taxpayer dollars and vital funds from their budget studying the effects of gun violence. This is in no way related to disease. It is just a clear attempt to jump into the gun control issue and remove 2nd Amendment rights. They are also pushing the Model State Emergency Health Powers Act. This is a totalitarian type system of control that would usurp the power of all local governments in the event of a bioterror attack. It would give the CDC and HHS the authority to even jail citizens who refused to accept a vaccination or submit DNA. Also for some perverse agenda driven reason they wrote into this bill the right to confiscate your firearms and shut down all dealers. WTF is with that? Sound like a medical/disease agency to you?. The CDC has also for a number of years refused to awknowledge the know existing links between abortion and breast cancer. Why? For political reasons of course. I have no doubt that they are playing games with figures relating to AIDS and homosexual practices. This agency puts political agendas before public safety.

Your attempt to compare gay bath houses with whore houses in Nevada is totally ridiculous. You are so desirous of making homos look like straights it is beyond sickening.

You want recent data relating to gay promiscuity. It is hard to find because it's not PC and it offends people like you who love the gays. I do remember reading about a Dutch study that was released a while back. The results were alarming and no American press outlet ran with the story. I don't have time to search for the story now.

I'm sure there are plenty of bisexual men out there. Someone has to be infecting all these women. They are not infecting each other.

You say you have gay friends who are not promiscuous. How do you know? You asked them. If you are a straight guy what makes you think they would tell you the truth? How do you wind up with gay friends anyway? I couldn't be friends with anyone who didn't share similar values. The only exceptions I could see if it was someone you knew since childhood or something then all of a sudden tells you they are gay as an adult. Even then mosts guys would back off on the friendship somewhat. That would be a normal reaction. Are you sure you didn't mean acquaintances such as people you have to work with or whatever? Straight guys just don't make friends with gay people. If there is any friendship on some level it is always based on something external like a work relationship or a maybe they are neighbors or something like that.

You remind me of people who used to think it was chic to say "I have black friends". Only now the PC chic thing for liberals is to say you have gay friends. What do you do... tape "Will and Grace" for them when they are running late from the bath house or something. Sorry not buying it.

Do a little research on the sexual culture over there before you start the standard lefty insults.

Yeah ... we all know they refuse to use condoms over there, but most African societies have a "sex on demand" type culture.

It is ignorant of YOU to assume I meant it is the fault of thier women. It is the mens fault. They are the ones who keep the women sexually subjugated.

It's people who think like you is the main reason AIDS in Africa will never get any better. You never want to admit aspects of any 3rd world culture could be harmful to thier own people. It's the truth. Check it out before you start shoveling your shit.

Spin, spin, spin...

Ok, you've said that I'm the reason that AIDS in Africa will not get any better. What is your solution? Or are you just pointing fingers, like so many Conservatives do, without giving any decent answers to the problem?

I thought my comment towards your comment about homosexuals well deserved. By impling that all homosexuals spread diease, you very clearly show ignorance you're famous for.

Quote:

Are you going to tell everyone out there in XOC Land that homos do not spread any diseases? Is that the statement you are making? A simple yes or no to both questions will suffice.

Not all homosexuals have dieases, and straight people can spread HIV/AIDS too you know. Your hatered towards gays is further proof that you're

yourself.

Is that your big reply? Spin, Spin...

I did'nt say YOU were the problem. I said THINKING LIKE YOURS is the problem.

There is no solution to the African AIDS problem. Certainly not from anyone in the West. The only solution will have to come from the African people themselves. If they don't change aspects of thier culture and lifestyle, they are doomed for extinction. When they've had enough of the death and suffering they will be forced to change.

By the way... you forgot to mention the pathetic political governments on the African continent in your tirade. All are corrupt governments and petty dictatorships that don't give two shits about thier own people.

So, you admit you don't have any solutions. You only point out the problems. This is why I can't stand arguing with you.

You don't think they've had enough of it already? Look, they don't realize that they're the cause of their own suffering. They haven't changed the way they live in thousands of years. These are tribespeople. Even the more upscale ones in places like Kenya, South Africa, and Malawi are STILL very much people of the earth.
You also forget that they are VERY wary of anything western, thanks to occupations by the British and other "Western" civilizations. So whatever we educate them with, comes with that stigmatism.

Your opinions are very much that of someone who has sat on his fat ass in the US without venturing out, educating himself about how the rest of the world lives.

Another conservative tactic you seem to like to use, is when you're argued into a corner, you change the subject. Nice try, but I won't get sucked into it.

Why is it ridiculous? You think single guys are the only ones visiting them?

Quote:

You want recent data relating to gay promiscuity. It is hard to find because it's not PC and it offends people like you who love the gays. I do remember reading about a Dutch study that was released a while back. The results were alarming and no American press outlet ran with the story. I don't have time to search for the story now.

And comparing Europe to the US is ridiculous, too. Everyone knows Europe is a much more open, tolerant society.

Quote:

I'm sure there are plenty of bisexual men out there. Someone has to be infecting all these women. They are not infecting each other.

So if Magic Johnson's wife got it from him, does that make Magic a bisexual?

Quote:

You say you have gay friends who are not promiscuous. How do you know? You asked them. If you are a straight guy what makes you think they would tell you the truth?

Because I happen to be a friend, not an adversary. I do not condemn them for being gay. They know they can trust me.

Example? One couple has been together since high school. About 12 years.

Quote:

How do you wind up with gay friends anyway?

Met a number of them in high school, met a number of them in college, and have met a few at work.

Quote:

I couldn't be friends with anyone who didn't share similar values.

Well, that's just sad. There are a number of people in MAXC that I'm sure I am FAR away from sharing similar values. I still consider them friends.

Quote:

The only exceptions I could see if it was someone you knew since childhood or something then all of a sudden tells you they are gay as an adult. Even then mosts guys would back off on the friendship somewhat. That would be a normal reaction. Are you sure you didn't mean acquaintances such as people you have to work with or whatever?

Again...sad. If someone you knew since childhood, who you knew well, told you they were gay, you'd back off on the friendship? Some friend you are. Would it ever occur to you that maybe they felt like they could trust you? And now you have completely blown that out of the water.

Quote:

Straight guys just don't make friends with gay people.

As I don't go asking people if they are gay the first time I meet them, it's a non-issue. I don't go searching for gay people to befriend. If I happen to be friends with them (be it 20 years or 2 weeks) and then find out they are gay...so what? Doesn't change them one iota.

Quote:

If there is any friendship on some level it is always based on something external like a work relationship or a maybe they are neighbors or something like that.

Or a friend of a friend, or whatever. Work, neighbors, church and school are not the only way to meet people.

Quote:

You remind me of people who used to think it was chic to say "I have black friends". Only now the PC chic thing for liberals is to say you have gay friends. What do you do... tape "Will and Grace" for them when they are running late from the bath house or something. Sorry not buying it.

Well, whatever. I don't go around telling people, "hey, I have gay friends!" The point is, I don't give a shit whether they are or not. It doesn't affect me or my life whatsoever.

Yeah, I tape "Will and Grace" for them....well, except for the Log Cabin group... I tape Sean Hannity for them. :rolleyes:

Yes there is, and it will come from the west, it's called a vaccine. The more money/time thats put towards this effort, the sooner it will come.

When are you going to stop being such an asshole. You debate and argue like some little kid. Why didn't you say in caps "I WIN".

Grow up and talk like an adult. I clearly said any solution will have to come from them by changing themselves. Unless Sean's remark about a vaccine comes along (which I doubt anytime soon) there is nothing we can do.

What's your solution since you are such a bigshot liberal know it all?

jeez I hope so Sean. Thats IF the virus doesnt continue to mutate.

Once they isolate a large enough portion of the protein coat that doesn't mutate by more than 80%, or discover a way to safely attenuate the virus, we'll have the answer.

Just wanted to point out...

Sickle Cell Anemia is a great example, so is pseudofolliculitis barbae.

Different races are no so much anatomicly different as they are geneticly different. This then exposes them to different diseases based on these genetic factors.

EDUCATION. Beat it into their heads. Why do you think that Western countries aren't having the explosion that is being seen in Africa? Because we've found ways, if not to prevent it completly, then at least slow down it's path of destruction. Without education, Africa is going to be wiped out.

So, education. There is my answer. I'm still waiting for yours.

Education? Thats your answer? Oh my, why didnt we think of that before? :rolleyes:

It's extremely ridiculous Moby. In a whore house in Nevada a guy pays hundreds of dollars to have sex with one woman for a limited period of time. Condoms are used and the hookers are supposed to be checked out medically on a routine basis. In a bath house the perverts have unprotected high risk sex with numeous partners. There is absolutely no comparing the two. I'm even shocked at your attempt.

Regarding Magic Johnson... You know how he got HIV? From someone else's magic johnson. All kidding aside.. I think he got it from sex with men. He didn't get it from female basketball groupies that hang out in hotel bars.

Don't you think Magic would have lost many of his athlete friends if he admitted getting HIV from a guy? Plus many endorsements. The athletes would have made a cushy PC face in public that it didn't change anything, but you know damn well in private many would have faded away from his life. That's just the way it is.

You got something better? I'd like to hear it.

This has nothing to do with the AIDS virus or it's infection rates here in America.

how so, you claimed that blacks could not have a higher rate due to anatomical factors... I pointed oiut that yes infact they could.

That's not what I said at all. I said that blacks and whites are the same. The only difference between us (besides skin color) is what is generally perceived as black culture and white culture. I was actually asking a question. Why are their infection rates so much higher per capita?

Please don't bring in things like sickle cell or whatever. It's not relative to the argument. Many variations of humans have certain genetic illnesses. We are talking about a virus and I have never heard genetic diseases playing a part in a predisposition to HIV.

So am I to understand that you've been to both places and have experienced this? Or are you just going on what you've heard?

And you don't find it highly risky for the prostitutes in Nevada to have sex with numerous partners? The HIV virus can stay hidden in the bloodstream for six years. Frequent tests prove nothing. They just prove that you don't have it AT THAT MOMENT.

And what happens if the prostitute contracts HIV between medical tests? There could be twenty, thirty, fifty guys come through, and she doesn't know she's passing it along. How is this safer than the bath house?

And the customers only have sex for a limited period of time? So that means that if you only have sex for five minutes as opposed to ten, then you're less likely to get HIV...I'll let that little bit of idiocy stand for itself.

You know what I'm shocked by? Your ignorance on this issue.

That was a joke?

SWEET MERCIFUL CRAP YOU ARE IGNORANT!! Don't you think that his teammates know what goes on? That they would have seen men going to his room, if your theory is correct? That it would have come out by now, thirteen years later?

And besides, what does it matter how he got it? What are you so afraid of? What is it that frightens you about these people? Why are you so virulent in your speech and arguments? Where does the hate come from?

That is the dumbest claim you have made yet. How the hell do you know were he got it from? Contrary to your belief not only gay men are infected with HIV.

Right. But what about the illegal ones not in Nevada? You really think they all follow the same health rules? Guarantee more people have sex with whores than people in bathhouses.

I don't care how many sex partners the hookers have. Will they let you have unprotected sex? I highly doubt that. The risk for the hookers contracting HIV is higher than that for the customers. Transfer of the virus from female to male is not as easy. HIV infection is further reduced by using condoms. In the bath houses they have unprotected sex with numerous partners. Transfer amongst males is the primary method of infection in this country. What is so hard to figure out here? The two places are poor comparisons.

Regarding Magic Johnson... If he was having sex with guys... no his teammates would not know about it. I doubt a professional athlete would want that being known by anyone for reasons I stated in a previous post.

By the way.... cut down on your fucking name calling. I can call you ignorant or idiot in every post also but I don't. If that's the kind of exchanges you want to have then I can be like that too. I've made an effort to cut down on that shit. If you want to have civil dialougues I suggest you also pull it back somewhat.

You may think it is dumb Frontier but I doubt he got it the way it has been claimed. A lot more athletes would have had it over the years if that was the case.

I'm aware that straight men get the disease. Not many though and the women they get it from have usually been druggies or have had sexual contact with bisexual men. The virus does not transfer easily from females to males.

Pseudofolliculitis barbae (razor bumps) is a common condition of the beard area occurring in African American men and other people with curly hair.

"It is well documented that sickle cell anemia is widely thought to be a "black disease." In fact, because sickle cells offer immunity to malaria, the condition exists wherever malaria exists.

American blacks descended primarily from West African blacks, where malaria is abundant. But not as well known is the fact that malaria is also present in Greece and Yemeni. Had Colonial American slaves been Greek or Yemeni, sickle cell anemia would be known to American's as a Greek or Yemeni disease, not a black one. And guess what? If racial categorizing was not in vogue, the Greeks, Blacks and Yemenis would probably have by now benefited from much more research. " Stop Recognizing Race

Granted, but not impossible. And if fifty people go through there, and one of them gets it, he's not ALWAYS going to have protected sex with a "clean" prostitute. Sometimes he's going to have unprotected sex with a woman he met in a bar. And then she's infected...like I said, it slows down the spread of the disease, but doesn't completely prevent it.

1/4 of all AIDS cases are spread through hetrosexual contact.
LINK
Homosexual cases: 368,971
Heterosexual cases: 90,131

While not AS predominant as gay sex, it's still 1/4 of all cases.

How do you know that they're having unprotected sex in the bath houses?

Kinda like Derek Jeter?

My apologies. Sometimes I get fired up.

Don't you mean flamed up??? Sorry man, couldn't resist.

OOOOOOH, I get it now.

What a bunch of shit.

Where the fuck do you get your info, shit-for-brains?

I'm glad you dug up a 2 month old dead thread to post that remarkable thought.

You have amazing insight in such matters. I now feel enlightened.