Interesting read:

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This is what the Israelis are up against. I'm not sure how much of this is in line with the teachings of the Koran, but it really makes you wonder how much of it has been perverted by Hamas and other terrorist organizations.

"My prayer is that Saeed's brothers, friends and fellow Palestinians will sacrifice their lives, too," Hotari's father says. "There is no better way to show God you love him."

Glad to see brainwashing is still alive and well. What a fucked up bunch of people.

"You don't start educating a shaheed at age 22," says Roni Shaked, a terrorism expert and former officer in Israel's Shin Bet secret service. "You start at kindergarten so by the time he's 22, he's looking for an opportunity to sacrifice his life."

hmmm....I see

How can anyone condone this?

Well, I think that if you've been brainwashed from birth that killing Jews is acceptable, they can easily condone these acts. And when the extremists are generally uneducated, poor and have no hope of a future (as is the case with 99% of the Palestinians living in the West Bank/Gaza Strip), suicide bombings are easily justifiable in their minds. They are able to blame the Israelis and the US for their miserable living conditions in the Occupied Territories.

The real challenge is how to deal with the whole messed up situation. One side thinks they are right and the other side say they are right. At the same time, both sides claim to worship the same God, how crazy is that?! We really need to look at the situation from BOTH sides with an open mind and come up with a solution. Until that happens, there will be a continued loss of life.

Uh yeah..... I meant how can anyone be pro-palestinian? IE many Euros and liberals. It makes no sense, but then again most liberals make no sense to me.

Chilling.

I have to make a comment here... why do conservatives view someone who thinks BOTH sides need to give as being pro-palestinian?

I'm neither pro-palestinian, nor pro-Israel. I'm "pro-both-need-to-get-a-fucking-clue-and-settle-this-bullshit."

If I'm not mistaken, we have a member on here of palestinian descent. Should she be told to fuck off because of that?

Because I believe on more than one occasion the Isrealis have made REAL efforts to make peace. They have attempted to make concession after concession but to know avail. The terrorists on the other hand, have never been able to keep themselves under control, they have no honor. They have a single purpose, and that is to drive Israel into the sea. Only one side will give, the other only takes.

That's not true, people of both Israel and Palestine (or terrorists as you call them) want peace and both have made concessions. Then one extremist out of millions of normal peace loving people decides to keep fighting and the peace plans go to hell.
How come when a Liberal wants Israel and Palestine to come to a peaceful agreement they're branded as supporting Palestine and not Israel? Seems more to me that Liberals want peace and conservatives like you think we should help Israel complete the takeover they started in 1967.

And its strange that you support Israel and condone Palestine yet most of the deaths have been Palestinian. Who's doing the most killing?

Sorry if this became too inflamitory but I just think people need to quit grouping one nation or religion as terrorists because 0.001% of the population believes in a violent solution. It's like saying all Germans are Nazis, or all Americans are racist becasue the KKK is in America.

The Palestinian issue is something else that you fail to see for what it actually is.

If it is not clear to you by now that the whole thing is about the destruction of the State of Israel, then you have not been paying attention to what has been going on all these years.

Moby... A disturbing thing I have noticed about you is that you are one of these people that is reluctant to take sides. I'm not only talking about just the Palestinian issue... I'm talking about a lot of things. Neutrality is the path of cowards. There are certain things and times in life where one has to choose sides. There is right and wrong. Most things are black and white. There are very few gray areas in life if you know the difference between right and wrong.

You're worried about one person on the board who is Palestinian? In your mind does that mean the issue should never be discussed? Is that a PC attempt to silence the debate?. I don't know which user you are talking about but I am sure they are an adult and can defend the Palestinian issue and their methods if they choose to do so. What makes you think they even care? I have both Irish and Italian ancestry and I couldn't give a shit what goes on over there. I am an American. Maybe the user you are talking about is also....

I understand that plenty of Palestinians have been living in Israel peacefully for years. But every time some idiot terrorist does something, they suffer for it.

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Moby... A disturbing thing I have noticed about you is that you are one of these people that is reluctant to take sides. I'm not only talking about just the Palestinian issue... I'm talking about a lot of things. Neutrality is the path of cowards.

It's also the path of people living peacefully. Switzerland anyone? Ireland anyone?

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There are certain things and times in life where one has to choose sides. There is right and wrong. Most things are black and white. There are very few gray areas in life if you know the difference between right and wrong.

Absolutely agreed. But there are some things that ARE gray.

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You're worried about one person on the board who is Palestinian? In your mind does that mean the issue should never be discussed?

The conservative seem to be the ones who think it shouldn't be discussed. Who is it that says, "hey, if you don't like it, leave the country"...not the liberals. Who is it that thinks there should be no movement with Cuba? Aside from 40 years ago, when has Castro ever been a threat to us?

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Is that a PC attempt to silence the debate?

Far from it.

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I don't know which user you are talking about but I am sure they are an adult and can defend the Palestinian issue and their methods if they choose to do so. What makes you think they even care? I have both Irish and Italian ancestry and I couldn't give a shit what goes on over there. I am an American. Maybe the user you are talking about is also....

Is it right that a person should be beaten in NYC by some simple-minded goons because of some idiots who crashed a plane simply because they "look" like a Muslim (and ironically, aren't)?

Oh really... This is new. How do they suffer? One million Israeli citizens are non-Jewish Arabs. That's 1/6th of the total population. They have total equality. Give examples of how they suffer. Don't give liberal bullshit statements like this.

Switzerland is no longer a neutral country. Hasn't been for a while. (They really never were. They manufacture weapons and sell them) If you paid more attention to world events and less on PC and liberal bullshit you would have known this. Ireland has nothing but 3 million people. The whole country is a welfare case for the EU. Does anyone really care if they take a position on anything? The Irish don't give two shits about world politics until they move to other countries... and then most become out of control liberals and leftists.

Besides... you are neither Irish nor Swiss. You are an American.

Some guy on my block has a gray house. That's about it. Liberals create gray areas on almost every issue except government intrusion in everyones lives.

You really are whacked out. Conservatives talk about the Israeli/Terrorist conflict all the time. What the fuck does it have to do with Cuba? Why do you lefties love Cuba so much? It is a communist dictatorial nation that subjugates its people. May I remind you they were setting up nuclear missiles to launch at the U.S. Let's just forgive Castro right? The same guy is still in charge and the same people still rotting in his jails along with new ones all the time.... all for speaking out against the communists. You liberals are definitely fucked up with your love for Castro and Cuba. It also has no bearing in a Palestinian debate.

What the fuck are you talking about? Who was beaten? Is this relavant to the Israeli/Terrorist problem? People get the shit knocked out of them in NY everyday day. Is this more of your liberal PC bullshit? You're fucked up Moby. Grabbing at straws...Making shit up. Are you drunk?

What I am is American, yes. (I do descend from Irish (as well as English, Scot and German)). But that' wasn't my point, was it? No, I believe I simply pointed out a couple neutral countries.

That's true. For liberals, it's black and white when it comes to telling people what they can do in their bedrooms and with their body. Conservatives are the one trying to intrude there.

Cuba was just another example. I wasn't equating the two. And those missiles - they left 40 years ago, remember? And what has the embargo accomplished? Nothing...except for a bunch of people trying to get to our shores.

And yes, conservative talk about the Israel/Palestinian situation all the time - "Let the Palestinians suffer...fuck them....you don't agree? Fuck you!" The whole situation is a downward spiral. It doesn't matter how much Israel is allowed to do whatever...there will ALWAYS be people coming at them...especially when people like Netanyahu come to power...and until Israel stops putting up illegal settlements.

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What the fuck are you talking about? Who was beaten? Is this relavant to the Israeli/Terrorist problem? People get the shit knocked out of them in NY everyday day.

OK, I stand corrected - it wasn't NYC. But location doesn't matter. Do the names Balbir Singh Sodhi and Eric Richley ring a bell?

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Is this more of your liberal PC bullshit? You're fucked up Moby. Grabbing at straws...Making shit up. Are you drunk?

I find it more amusing than anything that conservatives seem to equate questioning our policy toward Cuba as automatically a love for Castro. Stupidly amusing, actually.

I guess you will never understand American policy towards Castro. It is right to embargo them. Castro is an enemy of America. Always has been. There is no need to reward him. But isn't that the liberal philosophy... befriend the enemies of America and help them? Especially the socialist and communist enemies? I find it strange that the House approved tourism to Cuba. We will see if that sticks. Once Castro is gone we can change our policy, providing they change their murderous and brutal style of government. You liberals always apologize and prop up communist and socialist dictators. This is an example of my comment toward you as an apologist of the enemies of America. All you liberals are cut from the same cloth.

What's with the bedroom shit? Again you're liberal insanity is all over the board. Conservatives believe the privacy issue is a right of the states. As it should be. It is not mentioned in The Constitution. You liberals believe the federal government has the right to dictate whatever they wish. As long as it advances your agenda. What does this have to do with Palestinian terrorism? You deviate from the topic too much Moby when painted into a corner and when you have no valid argument on the subject at hand.

I am also alarmed at the same liberal anti-Semitic arguments you throw around regarding Israel. You refuse to acknowlege the murderous insanity on the part of the "so-called" Palestinians. It is always the bullshit argument about settlements on land that was won and acquiesced in a war. A war the Israeli's did not start. Land that never belonged to the "so-called" Palestinians in the first place. Land that was actually included in the borders of another country at one time.

The Palestinian bullshit is one of the biggest lies perpetrated on the world. It is a snowball that gets bigger with every roll.

I am wondering about your motives for buying into the whole bullshit lie in the first place. You are basically a predictable liberal. Lately you have been showing a disturbing slant towards the usual leftist positions. You are not as passive as I once thought you were. You seem to be inflicted with the "useful idiot" syndrome.

So when do we cut off China completely? They are more of a threat than Cuba. Funny how the first steps toward engaging them came with a conservative. And even after 12 years of Reagan/Bush, they had "most favored nation" status. Cuba is no threat to us, and you know damn well they aren't. What are they going to do, overrun us with all 11,000,000 citizens? Maybe ship over some of those 1950's cars?

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What's with the bedroom shit? Again you're liberal insanity is all over the board. Conservatives believe the privacy issue is a right of the states. As it should be. It is not mentioned in The Constitution. You liberals believe the federal government has the right to dictate whatever they wish. As long as it advances your agenda. What does this have to do with Palestinian terrorism? You deviate from the topic too much Moby when painted into a corner and when you have no valid argument on the subject at hand.

You are the one who said liberals want to control people's lives. I gave an example of conservatives wanting to. Privacy is not mentioned in the constitution, but it has been ruled time and time again to be an absolute right by the courts. Not just liberal courts, mind you.

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I am also alarmed at the same liberal anti-Semitic arguments you throw around regarding Israel.

Yeah, my best friend growing up and his family, who was closer to mine than any other, would certainly agree that I'm anti-semitic. Why else would I go to every one of their Bar-Mitzvahs, go to social events at their temple, have dinner with them and their rabbi, and join them in their Jewish ceremony when their mother died. Whatever.

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You refuse to acknowlege the murderous insanity on the part of the "so-called" Palestinians.

Hmm...I recall saying I was "pro-both-sides-need-to-get-their-shit-together." Guess that was refusing that both sides have issues. Whatever.

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It is always the bullshit argument about setlements on land that was won and acquiesced in a war. A war the Israeli's did not start. Land that never beloned to the "so-called" Palestinians in the first place. Land that was actually included in the borders of another country at one time.

Nor has it always belonged to Israel. Should we give part of the US back to the Indians? Oh wait...that has nothing to do with this...I'm just grasping for straws.

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The Palestinian bullshit is one of the biggest lies perpetrated on the world. It is a snowball that gets bigger with every roll.

Yes, it is a snowball...Palestinian terrorists attack...Israel strikes back...Palestinians strike back...Israel strikes back...ad infinitum.

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I am wondering about your motives for buying into the whole bullshit lie in the first place. You are basically a predictable liberal. Lately you have been showing a disturbing slant towards the usual leftist positions. You are not as passive as I once thought you were. You seem to be inflicted with the "useful idiot" syndrome.

I've not bought into any bullshit. There are Palestinian idiots. There are Israeli idiots (Netanyahu, anyone?). BOTH sides. Israel isn't some grand-without-fault entity. Nor are the Palestinians. I question why Israel builds settlements where they are not supposed to when they KNOW it's going to cause problems. That's just baiting. Since we are occupying Afghanistan and Iraq now, why don't we start building some American settlements there. You know...that might help with security...from Afghanistan we can keep a closer eye on China, and in Iraq, we can better protect our interests (I know if I come out and flat out say what those interests are, someone is going to accuse me of thinking that's the only reason we went in).

The China shit should definitely be pulled back. There are too many idiots in this country who think a thinly veiled version of capitalism in a small chosen segment of their population will turn their communist government around. They could not be more wrong. Others don't give a shit. American business will be in for a rude awakening the day they decide to nationalize all American corporate interests in that country. The Chinese are also very aware of the fact that our investments and factories are only helping them and they can use this to hurt our economy. This day will come. Mark my words. Capitalism was only meant to thrive amongst capitalistic countries. We have forgotten that. American corporate managers have forgotten that. The only thing that is important today is political correct bullshit and the bottom line in the next quarterly report. This will be an Achilles heel and it will hurt us very bad if this trend continues.

I wouldn't say Cuba is no threat. They are a minimal threat. I don't know what gave you the idea I or any conservative wants all the Cubans to come here. We want them to stay there. We also want Castro dead so we can move into the future. We can't do that with Castro. He can't be trusted.

Regarding you comment about privacy and the courts... Fuck them. Federal courts are wrong all the time. People like you you just can't stand the issue of states rights. Your liberal philosophy does not go beyond an all powerful federal state.

And please... don't give me the "I have Jewish friends" argument to defend your Palestinian positions. I live in NY and there are more Jews here than anywhere in the U.S. Most of the ones I know would smack you for a bullshit argument like that. It is typicial gentile liberal pure bullshit.

You claim to be "pro-both sides", hence your cowardice on making a stand. More bullshit.

The land wasn't always Israels, but it is theirs now. The original owners don't have much to say about wanting it back but the made up "Palestinians" are claiming it now. More bullshit.

It seems you have a problem with Israel defending itself. They only attack Palestinians after their people have been blown to shit. Including children on a frequent basis. Any attacks by Israel are more than well deserved.

If the Palestinian people were so noble and worthy they would change their leadership. They don't. The terrorist Arafat is the world's oldest, richest, and bloodthirsty terrorist. But as long as he is killing Jews people like you think he is some kind of leader. The only reason he has been so successful is because of uninformed or anti-semitic people like you in the West.

If Arafat were a Mexican or Cuban attacking our country on a routine basis, how long would you tolerate his shit before you struck back?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being "pro-both sides", for the lack of a better term.

If one were to take their head out of their ass, they would realize that the world is a very complicated and nasty place. This is particularly true in the Israeli/Palestian (NY Madman: your subtle reference to the "Israeli/Terrorism" comment did not go unnoticed) issue in which both sides are to blame.

I too am "pro-both sides" and I couldn't care less that some people may agree or not agree with my position. Both sides are going to need to give up something in order to have a lasting peace. BTW: The only coward here would be someone who refuses to challenge someone else's opinion because they "lack courage in facing danger, difficulty or pain" (Yes, I had to check on the dictionary definition because you guys are a rough and unforgiving crowd)

Slightly off topic:
I have been watching the action on this forum for some time now, but have waited until recently to make my opinions known. But because I am relatively new here, I haven't quite figured out how, and don't really have the desire at this point, to properly respond to multiple quotes and topics by other members.

Yeah .... it would be a nice start if Palestinians stopped blowing the shit out of civilians and innocent people. Including children in buses which they love to target.

First of all you are not "pro both sides" as you say. It's clear what side you have taken.

The Palestinians hate the U.S also if you haven't noticed, or if it wasn't taught in your "hate".. I mean "diversity" training.

I'm not surprised you feel the way you do. Anti-semitism and hatred for Jews and Israel is the new national sport in Canada.

You guys do however love your Muslim terrorists. No Western country helps their cause more than Canada.

First of all, by "terrorists", I meant terrorists. They are not able to keep themselves under control. The Palestinians are the ones who need to work harder to keep thier own extremists under control. In this effort they have been absolutely horrendous. Where is the mass-palestinian outcry against these violent acts? Where is the rallies against terror? They blow up a school bus and Israel responds. Then the Palestinians say they will get revenge because of the response. Bottom line, nothing will fucking happen until they stop the suicide bombings. And by "they", I mean the Palestinians. If they wanted peace they would get peace. They obviously do not want peace. I will say it again, a good start would be to start blowing up the families of the suicide bombers. Make the price for doing it even higher. Next, Arafat has to die. Then the guy who takes his place has to die. Then the guy who takes the place of the guy who took the place of Arafat has to die.....well, you get it.

And they should keep dying until the bombings stop. Its a vicious cycle for sure. But enough is enough. Since the Palestinians will not control thier own extremists, Israel will kill them.

NOWHERE did I say I was "pro-both-sides." I said both sides need to get their shit together. If anything, that is showing my DISGUST with both side.

Here's a great take on martyrdom...

Click this link!

Classic!!!

I think they were at my Halloween party last year...

Gozer The Traveller. He will come in one of the three chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldronaii, The Traveller came as a large and moving Torg. Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the Meketrex Supplicants, they chose a new form for him. That of a giant Sloar! Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of a Sloar that day I can tell you.