Q: Daddy, why did we have to attack Iraq?
A: Because they had weapons of mass destruction honey.

Q: But the inspectors didn't find any weapons of mass destruction.
A: That's because the Iraqis were hiding them.

Q: And that's why we invaded Iraq?
A: Yep. Invasions always work better than inspections.

Q: But after we invaded them, we STILL didn't find any weapons of mass destruction, did we?
A: That's because the weapons are so well hidden. Don't worry, we'll find something, probably right before the 2004 election.

Q: Why did Iraq want all those weapons of mass destruction?
A: To use them in a war, silly.

Q: I'm confused. If they had all those weapons that they planned to use in a war, then why didn't they use any of those weapons when we went to war with them?
A: Well, obviously they didn't want anyone to know they had those weapons, so they chose to die by the thousands rather than defend themselves.

Q: That doesn't make sense Daddy. Why would they choose to die if they had all those big weapons to fight us back with?
A: It's a different culture. It's not supposed to make sense.

Q: I don't know about you, but I don't think they had any of those weapons our government said they did.
A: Well, you know, it doesn't matter whether or not they had those weapons. We had another good reason to invade them anyway.

Q: And what was that?
A: Even if Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Saddam Hussein was a cruel dictator, which is another good reason to invade another country.

Q: Why? What does a cruel dictator do that makes it OK to invade his country?
A: Well, for one thing, he tortured his own people.

Q: Kind of like what they do in China?
A: Don't go comparing China to Iraq. China is a good economic competitor, where millions of people work for slave wages in sweatshops to make U.S. corporations richer.

Q: So if a country lets its people be exploited for American corporate gain, it's a good country, even if that country tortures people?
A: Right.

Q: Why were people in Iraq being tortured?
A: For political crimes, mostly, like criticizing the government. People who criticized the government in Iraq were sent to prison and tortured.

Q: Isn't that exactly what happens in China?
A: I told you, China is different.

Q: What's the difference between China and Iraq?
A: Well, for one thing, Iraq was ruled by the Ba'ath party, while China is Communist.

Q: Didn't you once tell me Communists were bad?
A: No, just Cuban Communists are bad.

Q: How are the Cuban Communists bad?
A: Well, for one thing, people who criticize the government in Cuba are sent to prison and tortured.

Q: Like in Iraq?
A: Exactly.

Q: And like in China, too?
A: I told you, China's a good economic competitor. Cuba, on the other hand, is not.

Q: How come Cuba isn't a good economic competitor?
A: Well, you see, back in the early 1960s, our government passed some laws that made it illegal for Americans to trade or do any business with Cuba until they stopped being Communists and started being capitalists like us.

Q: But if we got rid of those laws, opened up trade with Cuba, and started doing business with them, wouldn't that help the Cubans become capitalists?
A: Don't be a smart-ass.

Q: I didn't think I was being one.
A: Well, anyway, they also don't have freedom of religion in Cuba.

Q: Kind of like China and the Falun Gong movement?
A: I told you, stop saying bad things about China. Anyway, Saddam Hussein came to power through a military coup, so he's not really a legitimate leader anyway.

Q: What's a military coup?
A: That's when a military general takes over the government of a country by force, instead of holding free elections like we do in the United States.

Q: Didn't the ruler of Pakistan come to power by a military coup?
A: You mean General Pervez Musharraf? Uh, yeah, he did, but Pakistan is our friend.

Q: Why is Pakistan our friend if their leader is illegitimate?
A: I never said Pervez Musharraf was illegitimate.

Q: Didn't you just say a military general who comes to power by forcibly overthrowing the legitimate government of a nation is an illegitimate leader?
A: Only Saddam Hussein. Pervez Musharraf is our friend, because he helped us invade Afghanistan.

Q: Why did we invade Afghanistan?
A: Because of what they did to us on September 11th.

Q: What did Afghanistan do to us on September 11th?
A: Well, on September 11th, nineteen men, fifteen of them Saudi Arabians, hijacked four airplanes and flew three of them into buildings, killing over 3,000 Americans.

Q: So how did Afghanistan figure into all that?
A: Afghanistan was where those bad men trained, under the oppressive rule of the Taliban.

Q: Aren't the Taliban those bad radical Islamics who chopped off people's heads and hands?
A: Yes, that's exactly who they were. Not only did they chop off people's heads and hands, but they oppressed women, too.

Q: Didn't the Bush administration give the Taliban 43 million dollars back in May of 2001?
A: Yes, but that money was a reward because they did such a good job fighting drugs.

Q: Fighting drugs?
A: Yes, the Taliban were very helpful in stopping people from growing opium poppies.

Q: How did they do such a good job?
A: Simple. If people were caught growing opium poppies, the Taliban would have their hands and heads cut off.

Q: So, when the Taliban cut off people's heads and hands for growing flowers, that was OK, but not if they cut people's heads and hands off for other reasons?
A: Yes. It's OK with us if radical Islamic fundamentalists cut off people's hands for growing flowers, but it's cruel if they cut off people's hands for stealing bread.

Q: Don't they also cut off people's hands and heads in Saudi Arabia?
A: That's different. Afghanistan was ruled by a tyrannical patriarchy that oppressed women and forced them to wear burqas whenever they were in public, with death by stoning as the penalty for women who did not comply.

Q: Don't Saudi women have to wear burqas in public, too?
A: No, Saudi women merely wear a traditional Islamic body covering.

Q: What's the difference?
A: The traditional Islamic covering worn by Saudi women is a modest yet fashionable garment that covers all of a woman's body except for her eyes and fingers. The burqa, on the other hand, is an evil tool of patriarchal oppression that covers all of a woman's body except for her eyes and fingers.

Q: It sounds like the same thing with a different name.
A: Now, don't go comparing Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are our friends.

Q: But I thought you said 15 of the 19 hijackers on September 11th were from Saudi Arabia.
A: Yes, but they trained in Afghanistan.

Q: Who trained them?
A: A very bad man named Osama bin Laden.

Q: Was he from Afghanistan?
A: Uh, no, he was from Saudi Arabia too. But he was a bad man, a very bad man.

Q: I seem to recall he was our friend once.
A: Only when we helped him and the mujahadeen repel the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan back in the 1980s.

Q: Who are the Soviets? Was that the Evil Communist Empire Ronald Reagan talked about?
A: There are no more Soviets. The Soviet Union broke up in 1990 or thereabouts, and now they have elections and capitalism like us. We call them Russians now.

Q: So the Soviets, I mean, the Russians, are now our friends?
A: Well, not really. You see, they were our friends for many years after they stopped being Soviets, but then they decided not to support our invasion of Iraq, so we're mad at them now. We're also mad at the French and the Germans because they didn't help us invade Iraq either.

Q: So the French and Germans are evil, too?
A: Not exactly evil, but just bad enough that we had to rename French fries and French toast to Freedom Fries and Freedom Toast.

Q: Do we always rename foods whenever another country doesn't do what we want them to do?
A: No, we just do that to our friends. Our enemies, we invade.

Q: But wasn't Iraq one of our friends back in the 1980s?
A: Well, yeah. For a while.

Q: Was Saddam Hussein ruler of Iraq back then?
A: Yes, but at the time he was fighting against Iran, which made him our friend, temporarily.

Q: Why did that make him our friend?
A: Because at that time, Iran was our enemy.

Q: Isn't that when he gassed the Kurds?
A: Yeah, but since he was fighting against Iran at the time, we looked the other way, to show him we were his friend.

Q: So anyone who fights against one of our enemies automatically becomes our friend?
A: Most of the time, yes.

Q: And anyone who fights against one of our friends is automatically an enemy?
A: Sometimes that's true, too. However, if American corporations can profit by selling weapons to both sides at the same time, all the better.

Q: Why?
A: Because war is good for the economy, which means war is good for America. Also, since God is on America's side, anyone who opposes war is a godless un-American Communist. Do you understand now why we attacked Iraq?

Q: I think so. We attacked them because God wanted us to, right?
A: Yes.

Q: But how did we know God wanted us to attack Iraq?
A: Well, you see, God personally speaks to George W. Bush and tells him what to do.

Q: So basically, what you're saying is that we attacked Iraq because George W. Bush hears voices in his head?
A: Yes! You finally understand how the world works. Now close your eyes, make yourself comfortable, and go to sleep. Good night.

Good night, Daddy.

Cute.
Good news, Ian! Northwest airlines will soon be offering flights to Baghdad. Move.

I was always under the impression if you don't like your job or where you live, leave. The world is a big place, find a new spot.

Didn't see too many people leaving when Clinton was in office and people were bitching about him. They didn't like it...why didn't they leave?

...stirring the embers....

Humorous.

So what you are saying is that we should invade Cuba, China, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia? Cool.

I am glad Opium is just flowers, now I can plant it in my garden.

The old saying, truth comes from Kids and drunks...Good one Ian

I guess Powerguy and BN didn't quite understand that post.

Pot is just a weed.

(Well, it sure is in the midwest.)

To tell you the truth Ian, It was early and I sorted skimmed thought it. I have re-read it and found it very boring and nothing new. Just sounds like the ranting of someone unemployed.

I'm not sure if the original author is unemployed or not.

one word
dumb

thats all
just dumb

its too bad the majority of iraqi people are happy

But enough of that lets beat a dead horse
WHEEEEEE

I understood it, I know where you are coming from and I feel qualified to say that if anyone does not like this country and its' protocol, leave or make a difference by getting involved.
I choose not to get involved in a way other than casting my vote(for now).
The bottom line is shit or get off the pot. Bash the US and you might as well piss on all of our troops protecting our asses.
I will add that Ian was not bashing anyone, but simply reposting a "humorous" joke.
Is it his opiion? I can't say. But I have a good guess.

Damn.... Talk about leftist bullshit.

I am curious as to which left wing propaganda site that came from?

Why is questioning the government and their economic and foreign policies considered unpatriotic? Since when is being a good citizen defined by your ability to side with the huddled masses in their unquestioning loyalty to the regime? And lastly , what the hell does that have to do with either supporting or no supporting the troops?

If G.W. and Co. decided to invade Mexico in the desire to annex the country , the troops would be forced by their orders from their commander and chief weather they wanted to or not. The troops are no more responsible for the nature of their missions than my three year old is responsible for where we go when we leave the house.

We live in scary times indeed.

My point is that we need to trust our elected officials. I know that sounds stupid and impossible, but the last time I checked, there was not a dailey top secret briefing in my mailbox. Admit it, we may be a democratic society, but other than voting(Floridians don't count), we have litle say in how this country is run. I trust that GW and Co. will do everything they can to prevent another 9/11. To that end, I trust them to continue to keep our country safe by any means.
The comment about our troops is a reflection of how I feel about our country and our troops. They are representing this nation, its values and its people. My point is that if you don't stand behind them or believe the government is doing the right thing, then leave or try to make it better.
Did I mention I'm going fishing in Canada next week? I plan to piss outside every chance I get and bring in all of my own provisions. Dammit to Hell that I can only bring 24 cans of beer!

I have to say first that the actions and deeds of our military , although brave and resiliant , are not representative of all Americans at all times. Yes , they often times are called on to defend the causes and freedom of all Americans , which I for one appreciate. But they are also employees of the federal government who are at times called upon to further the agenda of the goverment to whom they answer to.

Trust our elected officials until they piss off too many people and they become subject to recall , right?

That's what amuses me about the "if you don't like it here then move to (insert horrible terrible place to live here) or just get the fuck out" mentality is that it only works if you DO support the current regime.

The beauty of our system , that does set us apart from Iraq or China or the old U.S.S.R is that dissidents and people who do disagree with the policies of our elected officials can stand up and speak their minds and rally opposition support without risk of reprisals from the government.

In California , I'm sure the current administration is doing a bang up job of staying on top of Homeland Security. But , other aspects of their performance have failed miserably so the people spoke loud enough to make a difference.

Remember : the government answers to the people . It is NOT the other way arround.

If you remove healthy discussion , debate and dissagreement from the equation and force the populace through intimidation from their peers to sit idly by and be silent , you then extinguish the very liberties that this country so proudly stands behind as the thing that makes us great.

Very well put.
Seems we agree then?

Everything in that post is true, do some research, then explain how it's bullshit.

Come on Ian... Give me a break. What research? The China and Cuba bullshit alone is piled high. Never mind God's direct line to George Bush.

A couple of the Q & A's may be true but that is only to hook the reader in. I really don't feel like refuting every single line even on a rainy afternoon. It's pretty long. It's also definitely lefty bullshit from some leftist web site.

Why don't we start by you mentioning the site you found this on. If it was an email...identify the source.

Don't pay poor Ian any mind. He's just bitter that he can't support himself, and can't pay his bills. He blames the current national administration because it doesn't conform to his belief system. He can't see that the IT industry was a wave he rode on without ever leaving his house and may now actually have to find a marketable skill and carry his ass to work everyday and put up the same bullshit the majority of us do.

Maybe if he had voted things would be different, but alas, he did not.

No vote=shut the fuck up and read the want ads.

Research what Ian, CNN? Get serious. All your anti-this and anti-that crap is not truth. It was spun by people smarter than you to make it appear as truth to you weak liberal-minded people. They have you all so caged up and in control it is pathetic.
The DNC says jump, you all say how high. Not one of you gave it a thought to check to see if you would hit your head on the ceiling. Blind dingbats falling over what is fed to you.
The movie the "Matrix" is really the truth about the DNC.
Research that jerky drawers.

This is cool, fianlly some quality entertainment. Ian, how did the interview go?. Perhaps you should pull up and move upstairs, Good MTB trails, good Beer and I am sure you cold find a job....

Nice post Ian

Fianlly, one American that has not been completely fooled by Bush

If you do a google on "Daddy, why did we have to attack Iraq?", it comes up with around 700 sites. (Including a nazi site (stormfront), and a church site (UUC)).

Almost entirely newsgroups and blogs.

next time someone makes a stink about how bad they dont want America involved in the war in Iraq think about this.

The American soldier who pulls home a measley paycheck
The American soldier who dies and doesnt know why
The American soldier who lives with constant heat and sand and misery
The American soldier who isnt involved in politics and has no say in when where or why
The American solider who hasnt seen his girflriend/wife/children/parents/friends in 9-13 months
The American soldier....wonder how bad he wants to come home

Go ahead and argue who was right and who was wrong. Like i said its beating a dead horse. The Iraqi people (cept for the zealots) are generally happier now. If for nothing else it was worth it. I know alot of people over there most of my graduating class from VFMC is over there right now.
This whole post sickens me
Its the worst kind of Spin ive ever seen.
Welcome to the new age Rhetorical Press.
Oh and just so you know Bush doesnt fool me, Clinton doesnt fool me I know the truth They are all slimbag politicians but their also doing the best they can do in the office WE elected them too.
have a nice life

I don't see the connection at all.

Nobody is questioning the soldiers' actions. Who put them in harm's way? The administration. Is it right? It's their job and duty. Was it right to keep them in harm's way in Vietnam? It was their job and duty.

I will support our soldiers. If they are put in harm's way, they have to do whatever is asked of them, so they get OUT of harm's way as soon as possible. That doesn't mean I have to support the person who put them in harm's for reasons I find questionable.

Questioning the administration does NOT equal questioning the soldiers and it does NOT equal questioning America. Why is it so hard for some people to understand that?

it's this simple. if the people dont want us to go to war then why did you send us??? your an american you vote. i work for the us army, who in turn works for the congress, senate and president who in turn works for YOU!! when bullets fly and friends of mine die shut the fuck up get behind the poor soldier who has to be there and leave your panzy ass liberal, socialist, flower child views to yourself. im willing to die yes die as in six feet under never to kiss my fiance again so YOU can say whatever and do whatever you want, nice that someone else does that for you, huh?? i dont care if your liberal or conservative just remember all those men and women who have to be there. the simple fact is that clinton was so inept and was so derilict in his duties that we were forced to do what we did. if youve never served in the military keep your mouth shut and love this country or leave it. and if you want to leave and you dont like it so bad, give me a call and ill personally kick your ass to whatever repressive hell hole you pick. when you sleep tonight in your warm bed with your loved one next to you remember all those troopers who are wondering if they will ever come home. i guess thats all sorry for the cursing but sometimes stupid people need to be kicked in the ass to see just how dumb they are.

And if Saddam did use Weapons of Mass Destruction and we did not stop it, then you would be bashing the government and blaming them for thousands of deaths........this is getting boring!!!!!!! Opinion is great and everyone has one, but find something new. I remember getting bashed for posting a topic about a sky diver having his cord cut,and him plunging 13,000 feet to his death. At least it was something different. We know that some of you do not agree with the government. If it so bad here in America, get out, but quit bitching about it..........

What a bunch of angry motherfuckers you all are. Kill this, kill that... pathetic.

Well since Ian dont like me much I will have to agree with everything that post says. As a history buff and war buff I have studied a lot on the wars we have been in and everything that posts says is true.

You put up with bullshit at work ?
Is that why you get high all the time ?

Maybe you should find a job where people treat you with respect.

WTF does Ian's post have to do with his private life?.Judging from his CV, he has acomplished more than a few of you put together....

I re-read the post and have to say I could call bullshit on 5% of it. No one blames the people doing the dirty work..blame the administration.

Let;s get a little wager going, I put $20 on Iran is next. Bush is too much of a pussy to react to the taunts from N. Korea (even though I think a dictator who claims they are going full steam ahead with nukes should be considered a huge problem) then again there are no resources in N.Korea that needs to be secured.....Election next year, you gonna vote Bush?????

Has nothing to do with anger or killing, just getting sick of the whining about how bad the government is, and that we should not be in Iraq. Have you been to Iraq? Have you ever been to the Middle East? Where do you get your facts about whether or not we should be in Iraq? CNN, FOX? Go spend time over there, then come home and have an opinion. Unless you have true hard facts about what really happened in Iraq or whether they have found chemical weapons or not, your biased, media based opinion pretty much holds no credibility. If you do have true, hard facts, please share them........ Still getting old man.....

He already did. Why didn't Reagan do anything about that?

What do you mean he already did, supposedly, according to all the EXPERTS here, he does not have weapons of mass destruction.......Maybe Reagan was more concerned about the Cold War....

We didn't. Bush did. Bush won the election with less than 50% of the popular vote. (Not touching the "controversy" - that's over and done with)

Apparently you've never heard about the stuff he pulled on Iran during their 10 year war? Go get a newspaper...they do have something other than comics and sports.

And yeah, Reagan was concerned about the cold war. But also what was going on in the middle east. After all, his underlings pulled the Contra trade shit. And don't say, "Reagan didn't know," That's no excuse. Truman said it best. "The buck stops here."

I would prefer *tiny* words. (Less letters, you know)

I will make a note of it.......

"Let;s get a little wager going, I put $20 on Iran is next."
That's a good bet. However, Iran only has one thing we need and do not need more of; oil. We own Iraq for now, remember?
As for North Korea, they dare not wave the nuclear card. China, and soon, Japan, will be the first to dim their flame.
North Korea has no exports, and therefore no bargaining power.
Good luck with your usual threats, Ping Pong. The world really doesn't care.

Figures someone living in Canada would post that........

Trust me we are just as affected by what your "leader of the free world" does as you are. I recall back when he was elected over 50% of Americans said the same...

Nothing like a fictional story to help the uneducated try to understand what's going on in this world. Oh wait, two can play that "game":

Talk about sad, but true.

Blah blah blah. You seem to imply that everyone who is on welfare is trying to cheat the system. There is a time and place for welfare.

Oh wait, you forgot a few parts in the story...

The wasp is killed by Raid. The baby wasps who survive make it through school alright, but can't afford college. The republicans say "tough shit little wasps, we're not going to help you. You're on your own. And if you find yourself a job at McDonald's, $5.25/hour is plenty to survive on."

The gnat has decided that he does not believe in God...any God. He does not feel right if his tax dollars are spent supporting some religious group. Mr. Bush says, "tough shit, I'm going to spend some of that tax money on "faith-based" groups."

The catepillar, a peaceful creature, wants to voice his opinion that he doesn't agree with sending off all the creatures of the grass into a conflict. "Shut up" says another group. "If you don't like it, why don't you move over to the swamp...I hear it's a place you'd love."

The mite is in his home with the love of his life. They are minding their own business, not harming anyone. Suddenly the door burst open. "We just want to make sure you aren't doing anything WEIRD, you little mite."

Sad...but true.

blah blah blah, another stupid political copy cat post, etc, etc, unoriginal, lame.

When are people going to get a clue?

People who are in the Armed Forces of the United States of America did so by their own willing hand. It is part of their job to go to war, to defend and protect the U.S. and their "interests"(what interests those are, is debatable).

Sure, every man and woman in the military who is currently in the shit wants to go home, and they should be home by now. I was fortunate enough to serve during peacetime. A lot of others haven't been. But that didn't mean when I was out to sea for three fucking months in a row that I didn't want to go home.

All of our people should be back now. Why aren't they? It's quite simple.

1. The civilian asshats in charge never gave the military what they wanted(similar to Vietnam). Had we put our full might into it, it would be over. Take no prisioners, no bullshit. But no, that's too against the grain for our PC government. What happened to the tough talk after 9/11? It takes the 82nd, 101st, and certain Marine units a matter of hours to get anywhere in the world. Yet somehow or another it took Bush & co. a month and a half to get their asses in gear with Afghanistan. Absolutely unacceptable. How long was war with Iraq mentioned about before it went down? 3-4 months? Pathetic.

2. Their rebuilding plan. Absolutely atrocious. Soliders are not builders. Go back to step one and had the military been given the ability to do their job to the fullest, the engineers, workers and whatnot wouldn't have to fear for the lives trying to put what we destroyed back together. As Infx said in the other thread, infantry folks aren't there for "security" or "rebuilding". They are there to kick ass and take names.

On that note, why are we even bothering to rebuild? War is destruction, war is hell. The absolute worst in humanity comes out in war. There are all these fucking rules that come about(the Geneva convention needs to be SERIOUSLY updated) in war. There are no rules. Sure, that kill and ask questions later attitude can be scary, but that's what war is. It sucks, but war sucks.

Am I Anti-American for thinking this? Absolutely not. I am a proud citizen of this country. My father served not once, but twice in Vietnam. He took a bullet for this country, he watched some of his best friends get decimated in front of him with his own very eyes for this country. I fully understand what patriotism is.

However, when our men and women are in the shit, and nothing is being done about it, that's unpatriotic. The nearly 300 men and women killed so far didn't die for their country. They died liberating Iraq. Anybody who doesn't think that is a fool. Sure, it's easy to come up with some bullshit reason to justify their death, but I'd like for anyone of you to say that in the face of any of the 300 families who have lost a loved one in this war.

So instead of getting in and getting out, today and for the foreseeable future our soliders stand around forced to have their thumbs up their asses cause policymakers can't get their heads out of theirs. Nearly 2 years after 9/11, and we still don't have the man who was ultimately responsible for it in custody or in a grave. I truly believe that we have the finest forces in the world. We search and we destroy better than anyone. But only when the leaders behind them let them do it.

Simply drive to the White House.

Same old argument. We knew from the get go that we would be liberating Iraq. No suprise there. Since you say you spent 3 months out at sea, i am assuming you have been on either a Med cruise or a Westpac? Either way, you probably have been to the Middle East, and you would most definately have been to Bahrain or Jebal Ali, right? If you passed Osama Bin Laden in any of those places, would you recognize him? Probably not, because he has billions of dollars, and can look like any other Arab person walking around. Yes, it has been 2 1/2 years, what do you expect? He could be dead and buried for all we know.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Didn't you know? Osama was visiting.

""Simply drive to the White House.""

Boy, you are one bitter little dude.

Once again, you are way off, and once again you shouldn't even be opening your trap, since you don't vote.

It's the third annual be a prick right before GOX summer event again isn't it? Anyone else see a pattern here?

You poor thing.

Aww, the bitter ramblings of a non-employed, ex-low payed, poorly educated goober.

Again two people missed reading between the lines, and had to resort to making fun of my employment situation.

Bobby_X if you are going to claim that someone is unedumacated, you might want to check your spelling and grammar before doing so.

Why do you think all these little countries are angry with the USA ? It's because of our policies and our government.

Don't take things so literally.

I have seen you jump on people and make fun of their situations. Join the military, guaranteed paycheck on the 1st and 15th.

They don't hire old people.

I only make fun of people who do stupid shit like buying a 2WD SUV.

If you are under 35(???), i think that you are in.

Can you afford the gas for your 4x4??????

Dude! Ian is like 50! He's been here so long..., well, he's just old.

BoneCrusher,

What's your point?

Soldiers are PAID to DIE. That is what they do. I think most of them sign up just so they get a free ride to college.....j/k. What do you(they) think the word soldier means? They are paid to take orders, to fight, and to kill or be killed. That is the nature of the job. We get too complacent when there is no war/conflict every twenty years....they soldiers get too "comfy" thinking, "shit there will never be a conflict; plus I get to go to school for free." War is hell, but that is why they signed up to be soldiers. Don't join the bomb squad if you don't want to detinate bombs......

The military is no different than any poorly run big corporation. The higher up you go, the less you do. The soldiers do the grunt work, while the generals call the plays from Washington,DC. If they wanna bitch, take it up with the chain of command.

Stone

Ian,

What does that mean???

Clinton was the one alseep at the wheel when he had a chance to get bin Laden.

You think they had all the logistics down in 8 months while GW was President to do 9/11? Think again...... It started years before.

Stone

Man that's so true. Now I know a lot of you Americans love your country, and think the Mr. Bush is always right, and the best president ever (The Germans thought of the same thing about Adolf when the Nazi ruled Germany, truly believing that Jews are the worst people and needed to be eliminated). But have you ever wondered what happens when you pick on smaller countries and they don't have the military power to fight back? No shit they are gonna pull off a bunch of cheap shots!

Why do you care about other countries so much anyway? Is Bush their parent or something? NO, your president is doing that simply because he wants to, and has the power to do so. The USSR was a lot worse and violent than Iraq or Yogoslavia back then, but how come none of your presidents even attempted to put a new government into USSR and free the Russians from the harsh communism? Because the government knew USSR was tough and therefore harder to pick on. Iraq is a lot easier to fight. The same reason why the tough guys in the school never picked on tougher guys, but the smaller less popular kids.

A lot of you need to spend part of your life out side of your little state (regardless of your employment status), and see the world from a different angle(yes, there are other countries in the world other than US). Go live in a communist country like N Korea and hear about what they think of you, then you'll have a much fuller understanding about how the world really functions. A lot of you simply do not have the ability to even understand why your country is getting terrorism because you are simply putting all your faith into your government. If Iraq is so bad, why doesn't anybody crash a plane into their building?

Now, about elections and democracy. That's easy to say when your current government is elected in the first place: loosing to another party don't cost much. But in some countries, the government was obtained by the cost of the blood from 10 million citizens. Do you really think they'll happily pass it onto someone else four years later? Not every country in the world function like yours. And no, I'm not saying all this because I live in Canada, I'm saying it because I DON'T LIVE IN USA.

Now this is the biggest bunch of bullshit I have ever read in my life. You completely run around the subject that somehow Bush is to blame for 9/11.

Did you ever hear of the Cold War? Last I looked Reagan won it and freed the Russians from thier harsh communism.

Comparing this country and Bush to Hitler and Nazi Germany is both offensive and asinine. Unless we replace 'jews' with 'Canadians'. (now thats offensive)

Its just like all you liberal pussies out there to justify bad behavior by bringing up other behaviors. Its just like all you liberal pussies to always shy away from the hard tasks because you are afraid you might offend someone else. I bet if someone raped your sister you wouldnt go after him because you would be afraid his family might hurt you.

Do you think we (as Americans) should really give a rats ass about what other countries think of us? I think maybe they should care about what we think of them. Just because the people in N korea hate us, does not mean we don't "fully understand" how the world functions. Liberals, in your infinite wisdom of non-offensive behavior, become the biggest hypocrites in the world when faced with real offensive behavior, such as the repressive regimes of N Korea and Iraq, to name a few.

I fully understand why countries attempt terrorist acts against us. To understand why still does not make what they do right. To simply stop what we are doing in the world because we fear what terrorists may do would open a can of worms and plunge this world into a future of extremist, repressive ideologues.

Now the irony of this is that who will the world be calling on if this happens? Not Canada.

What are you trying to say here? Of course not. Because a regime murdered scores of people to come to power somehow that should exempt them from answering for those atrocities? It has nothing to do with how our country functions. I guess by "they" you are refering to those in power. But if "they" are the survivors, you bet your ass they are glad to see us.

Stay up there in your socialist paradise while we carry you on our backs for another 50-100 years.

They know you don't give a shit, that's why they crash a 767 into your building (and even then just hoping you'll atleast give some shit)

Ahhh, Americans, what would be the world like without them? Uhmm, lets see, freedom of government, freedom of trade and best of all, free from fear. Do you really think your government is trying to improve the world? Democracy my ass, Bush is only Democracy towards you americans 'cause he need your votes to maintain his job and feed his family. I don't see shit democracy when you are dealing with other countries (Hey Saddam, make your citizens vote to see if we should attack your country)

That's okay if you don't understand, don't expect you as an American to understand how other countries function or what their history is like.

Freed the Russians? Give me a break. You runined their country, they can't even stand up for their communist brother countries no more. Their economy sucks ass because you tricked them. BTW, you never won the war, how can you win if you never fought them?

RJ...

What would the world be like without Americans???

Ask France or Britian you shitbird....

Say what you will, but that smilie was uncalled for. Trying to be funny, sarcastic, or whatever.

Clinton had a chance to get him, and the Saudi's refused to nab him. That's not Clinton's fault.

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You think they had all the logistics down in 8 months while GW was President to do 9/11? Think again...... It started years before.

9/11 logistics probably started during Clinton's administration, but it was long before him that the whole idea started.

Really, nobody considered what they did to be something that could happen. Not Bush, not Clinton, not Bush I, not Reagan, etc.

I really don't think it mattered who was in office or what they might have tried to prevent it. If they really want to do it, they could...and still could. Hmmm...let's say someone has an asthma inhaler. Do they check to make sure the real stuff is inside? There's a lot of stuff that seems innocuous to us that could easily be brandished as a weapon.

"RJ...

What would the world be like without Americans???"

I think we would all be speaking German and debating the new policies of the Nazi party.

What are you talking about? The only communist "brother" of theirs still in existence is Cuba. The Soviet Union and China were never that close. North Korea is closer to China than it was to the Soviets.

Those past communist "brothers" of the Soviet union didn't want them standing up for them. Here's a quiz for you... what order did the Iron Curtain fall in? Here's a hint - the USSR wasn't first by a long shot. Hell, Hungary tried to get out in '56, and Czechoslovakia tried to get out in '68.

Good lord, I'm siding with the conservatives...

(On a side note...could you work on your grammar just a tad bit?)

I'm not.

Yes, it gets almost the same mileage as a 2WD.

RJ... Your comments are the ramblings of an indoctrinated idiot and really do not warrant much of a response. However I would like to know how much time you have spent in N. Korea? If it was possible for all their citizens to leave and move to the US or S. Korea they would do it in a heartbeat, despite the fact that they get absolutely no news at all from the outside world. It beats boiling grass to stay alive.
................

Chia... I am sure you are a nice guy but you have never come across as any type of history buff. You are not even very knowledgeable on current events, politics or geopolitics. I think you are a student and that may be part of your problem. Never believe ANYTHING any college professor tells you in ANY liberal arts course without verification from at least 2 or 3 other outside sources. Just give them the answers they want in order to pass the tests and forget about them.

I do however enjoy reading your posts. Even when it is a blatant suck up.
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Tats... What's the deal with bringing all our soldiers home? It was a war. It still is. Since when do all the soldiers come home as soon as a war was over? How long is it over now? A little over a 100 days. Don't tell me you are part of the spoiled "instant gratification" culture that is all too prevalent in this country. We will be in Iraq for several years. Any one with even an iota of reality or an ounce of sense knew this from the get go. The "instant gratification" media is feeding the public nothing but lies and only portrays the negative aspects of the whole thing. They can't wait to start calling Iraq a quagmire. Some have already. They are working from an anti-Bush agenda pure and simple. It is sad that you as a supposed former member of the service does not see this.
...............

You know what most of the problem is with Iraq and our military? We simply do not have enough men in the army. The US has become too reliant on calling up reserves everytime we need forces anywhere in the world. After the fall of the U.S.S.R. all the liberal politicians (Dems and Repubs) couldn't wait to scale down the military and allocate D.O.D. funding to domestic social programs. We really don't have many fulltime sodiers anymore. No where near the amount we need for a country this size and the committments the civilian leadership gets us involved in. The prick from Arkansas that spent 8 years in the White House did a good job of increasing military committments all the while scaling down our ability to actually fight a long and protracted war. He totally killed our long held policy of maintaining the ability to fight two major confilcts on two different fronts.

For an operation like Iraq, we should have a large enough full time force to maintain reasonable deployment committments and rotation schedules with fresh troops. But we don't and they should be working on fixing this problem.

I think it sucks that we have to rely on so many reserve units. It's a shame. Bush inherited this situation but it is also true that he could be doing more to change it. This notion of reshaping the military and relying on small rapid deployment forces is ridiculous. Especially when we have a rapidly emerging superpower nation like China who is ramping up and preparing for war with every passing day.

I am also very curious to why the very same people who complain about Iraq never complain that we have been in Bosnia for 10 years and Kosovo for over 5 years. Is it because they were politically correct wars? Is it because the deployment orders came from a Democratic administration? Is it because the incompetant UN is involved? Is it because some people think US forces should only be used for peacekeeping and not offensively? Both places are shit and not much has been done in all these years.

Bush has done a lot of shit wrong. Not suprising for a guy who often goes out of his way to appease the liberals, often with our money. But he was dead right about Iraq and his treatment of the UN.

For those who complain about not finding Bin Laden... what the fuck do you expect us to do? Attack Pakistan because he is being protected by warlords. I've never even heard any of these people utter one criticism of these backward societies that maintain a warlord culture.

The decision to attack Iraq was dead on right. We should have done it years ago. The truth is we had a former president who did not want to deal with any type of risky confrontations and just pushed off problems knowing the next guy to sit in the Oval Office, whomever it was, would have to deal with these problems. North Korea is a prime example of this. Yet I don't hear any of the Iraq complainers harping on this issue.

I also hear a lot of people bitch and moan that other countries hate us because of our policies. What are these policies you people speak of? Let's hear it......

Don't be jealous RJ. Sorry that America has taken over the only thing Canada use to be good at......Hockey. And one more thing you fuck, come to America and smile, and think it is funny that 3,000+ people were killed by a plane crashing into a building. We will hang your stupid, maple syrup eating ass. Fuck you,PRICK!

It means that our government is responsible for what happened on 9/11. Sure, someone else was flying the planes, but our government allowed people to carry weapons onboard an aircraft and hijack them.
Our government allowed those people to enter our country.
Our government gave money to the Taliban which they used for terrorist purposes.
Our government pissed off the terrorists, their countries and their organizations.

And now, 2 years later, our government has done nothing but get more Americans killed while trying to find the 'person' responsible.

No one person is responsible for terrorism. Capturing Bin Laden or Hussein will do nothing but give terrorists more reasons to hate us. The cycle will continue until we realize we need to get the fuck out of everyone elses problems and deal with our own. Close our borders to everyone. Send every illegal back home. Manufacture everything we need in our country. Ignore the rest of the planet.
We could fix this whole place up in 10 years.

Trying to help your unemployment woes, even though you are a butthole about certain things.

Ahhh... Moby... you are wrong again. He was offered to us by Sudan. At that time Clinton felt we had nothing on him legally and turned down their offer. Kind of fucked up huh... treating international terrorists in the same legal terms as a lawyer looking to prosecute someone for shoplifting.

Clinton also never treated the 1993 WTC bombing as a terrorist act. He ordered it investigated and treated as a "criminal" act. Regardless of the fact that the bomber, Ramsi Yousef was an Iraqi agent and is also the nephew of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed (the hairy guy we captured a few months back).

Your hero Clinton is a real piece of work.

Oh PUHLEEEASE.. What do you know about it, man ,to say that?

Have you been ever (as in lets say 20 years in row) living without having to worry what the fuck you will eat in morning? Without having to worry that your boss will kick your ass out and you will be jobless? Without freaking college savings, yet getting nearly best in the world education? Finishing college/university and not giving fuck about what to do b/c you will be provided with job , FREE healthcare, daycare and all sorts of clubs for your kids, and actually either house or flat to live in? Harsh communism my ass..

It was socialism and it did suck in a LOTS of ways, but it wasnt more harsh to people in any way than what is going on with mass histeria about terrorism here and now..

and i been there recently - LOTS of people cant afford fucking glass of milk and piece of bread for every day...

There used to be saying "if you will spit on the community - community will wipe it off its face. If community will spit on you - you will drown"

Didn't work before WWII, what makes you think it would work now? :rolleyes:

Well it will actually work. There is enough resources and patents to be used for that, altough it will require HUGE changes in manufacturing.

Only problem will be actually with closing borders - its simply impossible at the moment, as US never were able to produce their own decent scientific ideas. Can use existing designs, elaborate on them - yeah, and do that great. But initial ideas nearly always were born somewhere else. So it will require about 14-16 years (time for new wave of students completely from 1st grade through college) and serious educational reform to get that cut.

That's not exactly true. Sudan offered to turn him over to the Saudi's. We tried to get the Saudi's to take him (granted, we didn't pressure as much as we should have). They refused. We gave up. We did not turn down the offer.

Either way, Sudan wasn't exactly high on our list, anyway. Do we trust them? Should we trust Iran now? What about Libya?

Sure communism is great if you are one of the party elites in charge. Maybe you had a cushy KGB job and instilled fear in all of your former citizens. Fear of being put in jail or some type of "gulag" or re-education camp. I bet the people in the gulag got a kick out of communsim.

I bet all the "choices" available to you under communism were staggering.

I bet you were a real estate magnate back in the U.S.S.R. Oh wait, I forgot. No private property. The state owns everything and you owe everything to the state. As a matter of fact, the state WAS everything. No individualism. All collectivism. No open practice of religion because God was replaced by the state. Fuck with these rules and you go to a gulag. Sounds really great!

How about the millions killed in Stalin's purges. How about all the other people who simply disappeared because of something they said. I bet criticizm of the government was a proud part of the Soviet system and tradition.

You are just what America needs. Another ungrateful immigrant who loves to criticize America.

Be thankful you have the right to say anything. You never used to.

Are you sure you are not still a communist? We have plenty right here in this country. I would suggest you join the Democratic Party. They would love you. You have a knack for propaganda.

No of course we should not trust Sudan. It is a totally backward, brutal and insane country. It is one of the few nations that still permit slavery to exist. When you really think about it no Islamic country can be trusted. Not even Turkey. Turkey is going down the drain rapidly especially with the recent marginalization of their military in Turkish politics. Their military is the only thing that kept Turkey from adopting Islamic rule. It's future is shaky.

I know the Saudi's had a small role in the OBL thing years back, but I do not agree with the way you portray it. Clinton did not want to do anything regarding terrorism. It was Clinton that was the problem in that case, not the Saudi's.

You do love to protect him. This will always puzzle me.

Not at all. He was an idiot in some respects (seems like all of the presidents are in some way or other). But why is it that when his underlings (CIA/etc) screw up, it's his fault, but when Bush's underlings screw up (Nigeria claim), it's not Bush's fault?

He was a screw up in all respects. He never had the best interests of America at heart. The Clinton's are international socialists. They believe in one world government. You will be hearing much more about Clinton (more than we have) in the near future. He has his eye on the UN Secretary General's job.

Nigeria is an Islamic state that is ruled by Islamic law (sha'ria). Some provinces (Christian) have not adhered to these dictates so there is civil strife. We are talking about a totally fucked up insane nation here. Are you surprised by anything going wrong over there? Don't tell me you think we should send our military over there as peacekeepers?

Again - dont freaking talk about things you have no idea about. My grandmother , my grandfather was executed in 36th, my other grandparents were joined to USSR only b/c they were on portion of Poland that USSR joined after treaty with Germany. I am from what they called "enemy of the people" families (both). We all been under serious attention from "department". So no - i kind of DIDNT had cushy seat.

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I bet all the "choices" available to you under communism were staggering.

How about the millions killed in Stalin's purges. How about all the other people who simply disappeared because of something they said. I bet criticizm of the government was a proud part of the Soviet system and tradition.

1) Neither of people i know were ever afraid to tell what they think. Even back in 30th.
2) Critisizm of goverment - same as you have right now - freely and no problem. Try to do you critizism of goverment in 50th in USA. I used to be one of folkz who went on democratic demonstrations against existing regime back in 80th... So? Yeah i was beaten up couple times So would you, if you will go arounf white house with critics right now. Patriot Act is very cool form of tighten your collar.

i am not saying it was all sunshine. But do not put stupid rubber stamps where you have no right to judge.

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You are just what America needs. Another ungrateful immigrant who loves to criticize America.

Be thankful you have the right to say anything. You never used to.

Rubbish. Not only you immigrant too, if not in first generation, then in Nth generation, but you again have no idea what you talking about. I am not crititsizing United States as country. I am critisizing people who have no idea what they mumbling about and then waving flag as proof, instead of thinking about outside world.

[QOUTE]
Are you sure you are not still a communist? We have plenty right here in this country. I would suggest you join the Democratic Party. They would love you. You have a knack for propaganda.[/QUOTE]

I never been communist. I never even being in organization of young communists (komsomol) - refused to join them quite publicly. And i am not really looking forward to join any parties here as i dont like politics. But yeah - i do have knack for propaganda In order to lead any group of people - you have to have it.

Anyway let me repeat again - i am not saying this country is bad. I might be not happy with Jr. goverment and decisions - yeah. B/c i am seeing how good country keep sliding to crisis and it reminds me beginning of 90th in USSR. And 9/11 had striking resemblance with explosions in Moscow... But. I dont like people to emphasise how others are crap in order to make themselves look good, specially when they have no idea what others ACTUALLY looks like.

Thanks, but I would not join the military forces, or work for the US government. The USA is why I am in the financial situation I am in. I don't care much for them.

Huh? I was only talking about the Uranium claim.

Canada is hiring, EA is starving for people....you would fit in well up here, rent out your house and come on up to the penthouse for a few years. BC is like Colorado, just ad Ocean

How is the Secretary General selected? By what I can see, the Security Council recommends, but does that not mean we can veto it? Wouldn't Bush's appointee veto it?

Funny thing... I found one sight about Clinton wanting the job - informationclearinghouse.info. And how strange that at the end of the article it says, "Dateline D.C. is written by a Washington-based British journalist and political observer."

What, is the author afraid to give his name?

Uzbad....

Give me a fucking break with your bullshit. I know exactly what I am talking about. I don't believe everything you are saying either. A few posts ago you were describing the Soviet Union as some type of workers paradise....free eduacation, jobs for everyone. A real paradise. It's all bullshit. I do understand the fact that you have pride in the fact that you are Russian (if that is your ethnicity. Soviet Union had many) It doesn't mean you have to be an apologist for a brutal government that killed more of it's own citizens than any other nation on earth.

Don't tell me you are not interested in politics. You clearly are. It is also nice to know you admit your propensity for propaganda. I'm not surprised. You've heard it most of your life. It probably comes naturally to you now.

I don't like when immigrants like you criticize America especially when America goes out of it's way to help people just like you. I bet you entered this country under one of the programs specifically designed for you and those from your former country.(You know damn well what programs I am talking about) We allow you in here, give you fast track to citizenship, we gave you FREE MEDICAL CARE for a long period of time, gave you help in finding housing if it was needed and you were eligible for welfare benefits until you found gainful employment. No immigrant gets more benefits than those from the former Soviet Union....especially those who claim refugee status. All at mine and my fellow citizens expense.

You have received more from the American government than it offers it's own citizens. You have received preferential treatment from our government. Now you turn around and tell us how wonderful communism and your former country was and criticize America all in the same breath.

You come from a country that fucked over it's neighbors, raped the land and it's people and kept hundreds of millions in many nations living in fear for over 50 years and gave absolutely nothing back to those nations. Now you are here telling us that we are fucked up for toppling a dictator and doing the right thing for the people of another nation at our own expense and cost of the lives of our citizens.

You are not only an ungrateful immigrant you are a prick. This country does not need ungrateful immigrants like you. We also have enough home grown liars. We don't need any from some former Soviet shithole.

I have never once heard a THANK YOU AMERICA for all this country has done for you. Nothing but complaints. You're welcome prick....

The Uranium claim has never been proved to be untrue. The Democrats just made a big deal about Bush using it in the SOU speech. There is no verifiable evidence it is not true. It was speculative intelligence data that should not have been made public at least until verification. The Nigerian connection was not just pulled out of a hat. The lies and media crap took off from there.

George Tenet of the CIA is the problem here...not George Bush. Bush's problem was why didn't he clean house when he became president. Tenet is a Clinton boy. He also should have been fired after 9/11. Clinton got rid of everyone when he entered office. Bush should have done the same. This was his first big management mistake. The administration is riddled with Clinton appointees who are actually undermining the current administration.

I don't trust George Tenet. If anything, 9/11 proves he managed over an agency riddled with an unacceptable degree of incompetance.

see above.

I havent recieved anything. Do not mix me with bunch of loosers that you see in NYC. They were and always will be in that "give us" state of mind. Unlike them - i never had to shit on the country (thats where you propaganda got all its little facts) were i grew to go for dream land, where surprisingly you still have to work.

I gave and keep giving - a lot. I am PAYING for your sorry ass medicare shit and other crap, which i will never recieve myself. I am PAYING for your parents social security, as i NEVER will have chance to get mine. Am i expecting any thanks? No. So do your studying and piss off 'till then, mate.

I'm talking about Yogoslavia. The Russians got so heated up back in 98 that they programmed all their missiles to aim at NATO countries, yet never had the guts to because they are not as powerful as they once were, before the US "saved them from harsh communism"

BTW you guys, I didn't put a smilie beside the planes crashing because I think the death of 3000 people was funny. I think it's funny because most of you still don't have a clue about why you were attacked. No it's not because they hate democracy like Bush told you guys, you are not the only country in the world with an elected Dictator (it's ironic isn't it, but when you think globally, what do you think Bush is?) yet you are one of the two countries that constantly receive trouble. Think about what your government's policy have in common with Isreal's.

You guys are fighting all those wars that you think are freeing up people's lives. But do they really think that way? (Don't ask for research proof, I don't go around Iraq tape recording people's opinions, but perhaps you should read their local newspapers and find out) You say you are fighting against terror, others think you are a dictator desperate for colonial land. Remember, the Germans used a similar excuse when they started a whole bunch of fights with other countries - a war to end all wars.

Last thing, I find it really funny that you guys are rating me based on this crap. Afterall, the number of trucks under my name should represent how helpful I am at helping my offroading and Xterra buddies out, not my political view of the world. It's funny how a bit of political discussion is bringing up so much heat on an Xterra club. Well glad this is happening on a forum. If this is after a day off trailing, mixed with a few cans of beer, we'd be starting a bit fight by now

Uzbad...

Hey Comrade...You bitch and moan about paying taxes and FICA. Do you think you are special? Should we have a special withholding rate for communists? Go to hell. Everyone on this board and every worker in this country pays the same thing.

Yes you did praise your former shithole. You never used the words workers paradise, but you implied that in your comparisons to this country. Fuck off comrade and go back to Belarus. (They are still somewhat commie so you may be happy there)

Don't give me any shit that you will never collect Social Security. Everyone who pays is eligible to collect something after a certain period of time....unless you are here illegally and using someone else's social security number. The only other reason you could not be eligible to collect is if you are here on a temporary basis. Too bad if you don't like it. You want to work here, you have to abide by the same rules as everyone else. Besides.... You would never make the same amount of money back in the toilet you came from.

Are you a U.S. citizen comrade? If you are you will be here at retirement and COLLECT. So what's the problem. You think the government should take care of your communist ass? Fuck off.

Too bad you don't like the system. We all have to put up with it. You are nothing special. If free healthcare, jobs for everyone and stuff... is what you want, what are you doing here? We are not communists if you haven't noticed. Did the Soviet government also wipe your ass too? Sounds like you think government is responsible for everything. Hard to believe a spoiled brat like you came from the U.S.S.R.

Every other former Soviet I have met hated their former government. They were all criminals but they were not communists and never spoke glowingly about it like you.

I'm glad to hear you never received any handouts from the U.S. government. You are not worthy of a thing from American taxpayers. (Yeah shithead...we call our country America in casual conversation). Keep giving and giving then kindly get your communist ass out. We will gladly keep your money comrade. We will use it to pay for the other numerous former Soviet deadbeats living here.

Why don't you tell us what you do for a living. What are these skills that you possess that few people have?

Real communism (not the ideal one) do not work the way you think. US, as well as Canada, is actually a lot more communism than real communism countries. The definition of communism is that you work for the "common". In North America, if you are too rich, then you get heavily taxed and some of your money go to the government, or the common. From there, it'll go to the poor who are in need of the money. That's exactly how communism suppose to work.

But in real communism countries, there are no tax and there are no support from the government. The rich only gets richer and the poor only gets poorer (one reason why China, although fastly developing, have an unstable society, you see bicyles and S-class driving on the same streets everyday).

Communism only works for it's time period, it's now outdated. North Korea is the only TRUE communism in the world right now (China is more theoretical, you can own property and multibillion dollar businesses) and that's why they will eventually collapse unless they change it. Communists are great fighters but not great rulers.

Now the racism and real meaning of your statement "government policy" rears it's ugly head. I suspected it. That's what all you people mean when you say American policy.

You are an anti-semitic prick who blames everything on the Jews and Israel. You also think terrorism is caused by our support for Israel.

Anti-semitism is really big up there in Canada. Is it now the national sport? Should we let the Muslims kill all the jews? Would that make you feel better?

Anti-semitism is pretty huge with you socialist pricks in Canada and Europe.

I am software engineer, or programmer if you must. "these skills" are not of your concern.

As of "political" picture - i was many time checked by department of defense and other agencies and granted certain set of licenses to deal with export of technologies that are in the sphere of national interest of USA. And it was back in times of cold war, and after that. I do believe they are more strict in certain ways than you are.

So - like i said, piss off, mate. If you cant say anything real other than screaming "communist pigs" - just shut up.

Hmm.. There hasnt been real communist country i think yet. But all the countries from "socialistic camp" i know of - paid taxes, hence supporting goverment.

There was one he didn't that I can think of. Greenspan - who has a lot more power than most.

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I don't trust George Tenet.

But wasn't he the one that told them not to put it in the Cincinnati speech? Who let it slip through in January?

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If anything, 9/11 proves he managed over an agency riddled with an unacceptable degree of incompetance.

But most of those people under him aren't appointed. I'd say 90% of the government workers have been in their organization, or within the government in some capacity, for years.

Are you saying they didn't have them aimed that way before '98?

Regardless... I personally don't think either the USSR or the US ever had the balls to fire them. At least not a first strike. They both might have done a hell of a lot of sabre rattling, but they weren't stupid. They knew the consequences.

Yup. They were aimed to those. long before 98th. And yeah - if any of big chums would start firing back then - by now only Africa and Australia would probably exist.

It once nearly went to the point, in the days of Carribean crisis, but thankfully both countries were smart enough to not follow impulse.

There never has been a communist country. A "communist" country would have no government. Socialist, on the other hand...lots of those.

Communism does not have reward or motivation. That alone would stop it from ever existing.

Your saying the US and canada are more "communist" because of taxes is only the economic part of it. Communism is both economic and political, which isn't the case with capitalism and democracy.

Speaking of weird shit that those in charge do for their citizens:

Chemical weapons destruction

If i would be living in that town and have kids - i probably would go and lay under wheels of first freaking truck with that shit moving in. Its chemical weapon and its the middle of city. And sarin is pretty bad thing to get out.

Comrade Uzbad....

For a computer guy you really make it difficult to follow your posts. Start quoting correctly. All the following quotes are yours....

This was a theme when the US were a bunch of colonies of England. This has nothing to do with you. This does not apply to present day ungrateful immigrants who are here for money and have no interest in citizenship. Besides... there is no law stating this. You want to work here, you pay taxes comrade.

Why not? Is there some kind of Russian tax I am not aware of. Do immigrants get taxed at a higher rate? This is more of your bullshit. You are a resident alien (I hope you are here legally). Beyond the fees for that, how else are you paying more than the rest of us? Also please explain how medical insurance that you purchase on your own is more expensive than that for a US citizen the same age who purchases his own insurance? Unless you are from Chernobyl, this sounds like another lie. You just don't like paying for anything that your former shithole government provided. Too fucking bad.

Yeah some future. I guess you are living it. It never had any future comrade. It was destined to go broke and crumble under it's own weight. How many millions were killed for the good of the state.

I am curious how you refuse to address the untold millions of Soviet citizens murdered by their own government.

Resident aliens who pay into the sytem are eligible. You can live here your whole life here without becoming a citizen. They collect SocSec. I know senior citizens who are resident aliens who collect. Maybe there is a special law covering just you. There must be something you are not telling us regarding this matter. Are you hiding something? Are you here legally?

Welcome to everyone's problems with the system. Many of those pricks are from former USSR. I don't like communist liars being here even one hour a day.

It was kind of a joke...as in you want government to do everything for you. I am not surprised you didn't get it. A lot of you people from USSR have no sense of humor. Like a bunch of emotionless Frankensteins with a hammer and sickle stamped on your head.

The Soviets I have known are not friends.

Too bad you didn't feel like standing in line. I thought you Soviets were used to that. How many hours for a roll of toilet paper?

A couple of dozen years.... try a dozen years comrade. I know it seems like a long time since the workers paradise collapsed. Have you tried Cuba? They provide everything you need...well except maybe freedom. Who needs that right comrade?

Again... by your post it sounds like you are here illegally.

We are paying a lot of your former countryman. Something sounds wrong with your story as I have said. I am glad you never received any handouts. Good for you if you are telling the truth. It's a positive in your favor.

That is by no means a special skill. There are many US citizens who do the same thing and they are out of work. Many on this board. There is nothing special about you comrade.

Of course they would check you out. A Russian in the USA working on technology for export during the Cold War. Why did you post this? Did you think this was unusual?

How about you shutting the fuck up and stop criticizing our country. A country that supplies you with a good livelihood. A country that you have no interest in becoming a citizen. You have been here since the Cold War and still have no interest in becoming a citizen? I would also think you would write better after all these years. No one expects you to win a spelling bee, but your writing could be a little easier to read.

I hope you write code better.

Will your son be an American? He is now. Will he stay that way comrade? (Just curious)

There are many untruths in what you have said comrade. I am hoping you clear these things up.

NYMadman, your condescending attitude toward Uzbad is slipping toward almost a racist tone.

Take it off this board.

I know you have to break everyone down into little easy to manage groups that you can hate, but it's really getting old.

The more you post about your hatred of all things un-American, the more I get a mental picture of some 60 year old fart sitting on the porch with a shotgun who hasn't looked at a calendar in 20 years.

I wasn't aware "Soviet" was a race.

As far as condescending.... he gives it out as good as he takes it.

Not sure what "slipping toward almost a racist tone" is supposed to mean. I didn't say anything racist. If you read the thread I believe you would see he was more insulting toward the "race" in question than I ever was.

I know he is your friend and I guess you have taken a side.

I haven't taken a side, I just don't care for your attitude toward Uzbad (or anyone who isn't 100% white American, came over on the Mayflower).

I used the term racist, because we don't have a good word for someone like you who isn't tolerant of anyone who is different from you.

Interesting statement...

Uzbad and I are each just as "white" as the other. If there was attitude in our exchange, we are both guilty.

You know I am not a racist. I couldn't care less what someone's skin color is. What you mainly object to is my political and societal opinions. Strange since this is a political thread that you started. It was assumed you wanted a political discussion. If an attitude is calling "bullshit" on some of the things the guy posted, then I am guilty. His response sent it into further negative territory. He is a friend of yours and you don't know me. I can understand that.

The only "intolerance" I ever witness on XOC is via peoples opinions. I am by no means the only guilty party as far as this is concerned. I present valid arguments backed up by facts and many don't like what they hear. Many people don't like facts or reality. I am by no means a totally innocent party but calling me a racist is just wrong. I am called all sorts of names here and usually the worst names I sling are "lefty" or "liberal". I can't remember the last time you ever came to my defense while I was being barraged with insults...but that is OK. I don't mind. We are obviously on different ends of the political spectrum and view things differently. Nothing wrong with that. You have strong opinions yourself and never look at the other side on many issues but I would never call you "intolerant".

I thought "conservative" was the code word used to describe a perceived view of intolerance by those who feel as you do. Well...everyone has a level of intolerance on certain subjects. That's just the way it is. For a board operator you do have a lot of patience not only with me but with the whole crowd and this is to your credit. I am sure everyone appreciates it.

By the way.... I don't have a porch and I am actually slightly younger than you. I have been farting a lot the past couple of days though....

You just can't have a civil debate with anyone without bringing something out from under the table. You have continually called him comrade (I doubt he's your friend), commie and a communist just to get him riled up. I just think you could be more tactful.

BTW, I have only met Sergei once, and have had many more words with you on this board than him, so I'm not taking sides.

Yes I started this thread, by posting what I though was a humorous look at the situation the USA is currently in. What I got for it was recommendations to move out of the USA from brainwashed individuals who think our government can do no wrong.

Your only response was your usual "Leftist Bullshit!!!11!" reply without even bothering to do any research.

You had nothing to offer to rebut the statements in the original post because you know they are facts, so you found someone else to fuck with.

You let me down by showing me who you really are, just another useless Angry American™.

Sounds like an excuse to me. I hear Mexico is hiring...........

Are you suprised we want you out of the country. "Useless Angry American" Dude, it's not that bad. Do you think you are the only one who has ever been unemployed? Get over it, move on and find a better job.

Yes, building American Ford, Chevy and Dodge vehicles.

I guess literacy isn't a big thing in Florida, this discussion is not about my employment.

But since you're so interested, could you go out tomorrow and find a job paying $80k a year ?
Do you think it's that easy ?

The way Uzbad talks about his former country so glowingly, reminds me of all the Germans who had "no idea" there were concentration camps on the other side of those big fences. :rolleyes:

*sighs* I merely pointed out that while there has been lots of crap, there has been social protection to all of people and certain things that made their lifes brighter. If you cant do anything better than comparing me with Germans in 40s after that, well, its your right.

I read only part of the first post from Ian... and this last post from Uzbad...

You are all wrong!

I am right.

That is all!

Andre convinced me!

Yeah i am admitting wrongness of my ways

I will start packing bottles with chocolate milk and cookies for sending to NYC as retribution.

""Thanks, but I would not join the military forces, or work for the US government. The USA is why I am in the financial situation I am in. I don't care much for them.
""

That's what I said about you on page two. You only care now because you are unemployed(able).

It's the national governments fault you can't sit in your home office making 80k a year? (BTW is that all? I do that good geez)

You had your time in the sun on the IT wave making games and charging an arm and a leg for it. Great, but it's over for the most part. Too many other people now do it and they do it cheaper.

How is that the national governments fault there Ian? Maybe you should register to vote and get involved instead of sitting there at your keyboard and bitching like a litle spoiled brat.

You idiots spent an entire weekend, sitting around a computer, arguing bullshit . . .



Don't you assholes own 4x4s?

Go drive them . . .

Having read Madman's last KY match with UZBad I am curious. Please tell us more about yourself Madman. I now you are not very interested for us to know who you really are, and that is ok. If I had a better insight on your background I might be able to understand your extreme radical views better. I agree with some of the stuff you have posted here over the years, But your hatred for anything non US, seems to expose a somewhat narrow minded person. I know you are extremely intelligent and spend a ton of times reading up on current events etc. What do you do for a living?. what kind of academic background do you have?. Hobbies?.

I am not trying to pull a fast one on you but I am seriously interested after reading your views on the Former Soviet Union and aparent hatred for Immigrants from there...

Claus

I'd be interested too, for different reasons.

I am a diversity trainer...

Just kidding. You know my story. I have discussed it many times. Is your memory that poor? I remember your story.

I guess you can say I am sort of unemployed right now like Ian. I however am not in the same shape as him. I have a pension and some investment income so I am not that bad off. I do OK. Right now I do home improvement type work when it is available...build decks, do brickwork, paint house exteriors, etc. Whatever comes around. Right now I have been working on some woman's home ripping old cedar shingles from 2 of her sidewalls. That is on hold and I have plastic tarps and tar paper covering the side of her house. You need a sunny weather for that and it has rained a lot here or looks like it is going to rain any moment for the past week. The lady is a little pissed but too bad. I told her I would be back Wed. or Thurs.

Sometimes lately I go a few weeks and do nothing. During those times I like going to the driving range or the skeet shooting range if you want to know some hobbies I enjoy. I also enjoy reading, drinking at the local pub (sucks since you can't smoke in bars anymore. I am going less now) I go fishing sometimes (surf casting) for blues. I still tinker with computers but I find I have lost most interest in them.

I have a girlfriend that I have had a pretty rocky relationship the last six months. Basically since last Valentine's Day. She works rotating shifts in a hospital so things were great in the beginning because I can be wherever I want to be during the day and and this afforded us time to do a lot of things. She expected things to be getting more serious. I am not "in love". I like her and we usually have fun but I have noticed the older you get, the faster they want to accelerate things to the next level. In some ways we have been just stringing each other along these past months. I don't see us spending our lives together. I of course can not be direct about this with her...I skirt the issues...after all she is a woman. Where this is going... I don't know. Most likely no where. She sees it more everyday and this is a problem. We will see. But...it's not like this isn't the first time I have been through this.

I like working outside and with my hands. Can't take offices any more.

Do you have a poor memory? I have told my story here before. I remember your story. Maybe your memory is selective.

At 20 I quit school to join NYPD. I was on job for 11 years until a high profile incident that left me in half a body cast for months and the brass yanking their political chains. They kind of convinced me into an early medical retirement. They don't want "motivated" cops any more. My Lt. was more than happy to see me go. The Capt. too. When a guy becomes a ranking officer in the PD something happens to them. They become "political" assholes. They forget their oaths and betray the men in their charge which ever way the PC winds blow.

After that I went to work in computer field. Now that business is dead and I do other things to keep busy until something else turns up. I kind of like doing whatever the hell I want whenever I want. I guess I am kind of lucky. I have a lot of freedom to do what I want.

My political beliefs have always been the same. I have been interested in politics since childhood. Maybe I will run for office one day. That is a definite possiblity. I may have problems because I don't tow the party line. My political ideals are primarily based on my sense of right and wrong and a sense of morality. Something that is lacking in the world today and that it sad. I believe in individuals. I abhor any type of collectivist thought. It is rampant amongst the many socialist types today.

I hate socialists, communists, feminists, etc. I hate societies propensity for creating victimized clasess of people. It is all wrong. I hate the numerous ridiculous and insane things that go on in our society. It gets worse every day.

I guess that's it for now. I am all talked out for this post. Anything else you want to know?

My views are not extreme. By your standards and some other people here maybe. If anything I will concede that my presentation can be rough sometimes. Reality is rough and I think many people are in dire need of a good dose of it.

There are also too many "sheeple" in our society. If we had a very conservative media and entertainment industry in this country, those same "sheeple" would feel whatever they are told to feel on many issues affecting our society.

You can fool some of the people all the time and all of the people some of the time.

Does this satify your curiousity? There is more to me but this is the abridged version...