How so? I'll whine all day long, but I have no impact on the decisions Bush makes. A war on terrorism is about as ineffective as you could get, no matter how you wage it.

I wasn't reffering to you man. Sorry I gave the wrong impression. Damn.

No problem. This is the ALR after all.

BTW, John Kerry reccomended some replacements for Rummy today. They included Carl Levin, which I found quite funny. Why not put Teddy in there?

The man was there on his own money grubbin' freewill. They tell you the dangers involved when you take the job. He should have known better. $130k tax free ain't worth getting killed over.

Either we get out of Iraq very soon, or turn our troops loose and let them do their jobs and damn the liberals in this country.

Oh, that's right. Bush declared "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" and that makes the war over. Sometimes you really are too much. I would bet that most soldiers in Iraq would not agree that the war is over.

Another favorite line of Bush and the Republicans - if you don't support Bush then you are supporting the terrorists. Any dissenting opinions could not possibly be valid. BTW, have you ever heard Bush admit to a mistake. Of course not, he is perfect in his mind.

He apparently didn't have a job over there either. The circumstances of his being in the country are quite strange it seems.

What would you have us do? Sit back and wait for another attack? So far it seems it has been pretty effective. I haven't seen any plains flying into buildings lately. :rolleyes:

Neither have I, but I didn't see any before, either. I think shit's gonna happen. I don't think you can wage a war on ideology. You can kill the man, but you can't kill the idea.

I don't know what we can do, but a better job of protecting our borders might be a start.

The mission was to remove the Sadam regime, isn't it removed? We can't help it that every terrorist from around the world has came into Iraq to blow themselves up and take some Americans and Iraqis with them. They are trying to create the picture that we are losing the war, and a large part of America is eating it up. The Americans (liberal or not) that are freaking out about it is motivating the terrorists more.

What mistake has Bush made, and why should he apologize? Has Clinton apologized for sitting on his ass while this whole problem was brewing?

I think you're right.

But on my list of things to worry about, a "terrorist strike" is near the bottom . . . :rolleyes:

That doesn't surprise me Graham. You Canucks haven't had anything to worry about for a couple generations now. You have had us watching your back.

What part of 9-11 did you miss?

Sure you can. If you kill enough of them and free the rest of the people the people will turn on the terrorists.

He wasn't there for money, but to help rebuild the city and do his small part in a huge movement. He represented himself and didn't have a crew to work with. He wasn't a contractor of any of the companies involved with the rebuilding of Iraq. He had been on another trip and almost died because he gave his food and water to others that needed it more. He showed them how to make bricks out of material that was available. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. His only crime was being an American in an anti-American area.

Madman, hopefully one day I will make it to the top of your list; or at least one below Hillary.

You wanna win the war against terror? Stop being a god damn terrorist. We reap what we sew, fucko!

I didn't, thanks for asking.

You will never be able to kill enough people to wipe out the ideas. That's the greatest thing about ideas. They're intangible. They're recorded. And sooner or later, someday, those ideas will be revived and acted upon once again, for better or for worse.

Hitler and his crew are gone, but the ideology is still there and revered by many -- even in this country.

Right, we just have to worry about everybody pointing their guns at our Southern neighbour, and hope they don't miss their targets. :rolleyes:

You illustrated my point for me very well. Hitler is gone, and the nimrods following his ideals have been reduced to a group of white trash idiots that shave their heads and look tough. That is about it.

For now. The same was probably true for Bin Laden 40 years ago.

These come to mind off of the top of my head:

- Iraq is poised to use WMD, and that is why we need to go to war immediately.

Still searching for WMD. Any day now.

- Americans will be welcomed as liberators.

Funny but I think the word Iraqis use to describe us is occupiers. Big difference.

- Iraq's oil revenue will pay for the war and the reconstruction of the country.

Is that why we have spent almost $200 BILLION so far? I'm sure we couldn't have used any of that money in the US. Health care? Jobs? Education? Nah, we'll just borrow more money from the Treasury.

- We only need 100,000 troops to secure the whole country.

Pentagon planners had originally suggested 400,000 soldiers would be needed. I guess Bush knows better than the military.

Actually this whole movement started about 70 years ago. The Brits fucked the whole thing up rather nicely.

As far as the weapons go - Iraq did (and probably still does) possess weapons of mass destruction, and they have used them. When I was in the military, we would study satelite photos of mobile weapons labs moving out the back door as inspectors walked through the front door. Even your hero John Kerry said that he supports the actions agains Sadam because he possess weapons of mass destruction

As far as Americans being welcomed as liberators - Are you in Iraq or have you been there? We are being welcomed as liberators. The only thing that is being reported is the negative stuff. You aren't hearing about all the happy people in Iraq. You aren't seeing the little girls and women going to schools now. We have done so much for the Iraqi people, and the majority of them are very happy and grateful.

As far as the Oil Revenue paying for the war - Things are costing more than we estimated, and no one else is helping with the costs. This is not Bush's mistake, is merely a mis-calculation by one of his aides or staff. Can you blame him when he is misinformed?

As far as the 100,000 troops - I assure you that Bush listens to his military staff and doesn't make off the wall decesions about how many troops we will send. We didn't predict that every extremeist Muslim from around the world would come into Iraq to complicate things. We didn't predict that the left and the media would politicize this war and motivate the terrorists to keep fighting.

In reference to your liberator comment:

Why don't you read this letter from another thread on XOC. Maybe you can come to your senses...

Here is the thread

I would like to see you have the conversation that you are having on this board with this guy. If you are an American, you will put your liberal views aside and realize that we are doing good things in Iraq.

There is no point in arguing about this war that we are in. What is done is done and all we can do now is to keep our resolve and see it to the end. The biggest thing that you all and America can do is stand behind YOUR soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coast guardsmen that are fighting and dying each day. You can argue politics all you want but we are all a bunch of arm chair quarterbacks. National and international politics is far too big for any one man to control. The presidency is not what it used to be. We need to stop worrying about what the rest of the world thinks and do what we know is right. For those who say slaughter them all, we as Americans have never done that. We don't reduce our selves to that level and it has worked in the past and will work again. If your not an American then shut up because frankly we don't give a flying fuck what you think of us because your country exists because we do. My rant for the day!!!

Since we are in the mood of quoting troops in Iraq, here's a good one.
This letter was sent by mail from Iraq from Specialist Mike Prysner:

Dear Mr. Moore:
I’m writing this without knowing if it’ll ever get to you. I’m writing it not knowing why, or knowing what I’m going to say. I’m writing it not knowing if I’ll ever finish it or mail it. I’m writing it from the trenches of a war (that’s still going on,) not knowing why I’m here or when I’m leaving. I’ve toppled statues and vandalized portraits, while wearing an American flag on my sleeve, and struggling to learn how to understand.

I was in Vicenza, Italy when I heard your Oscar acceptance speech. It was the day before I boarded a plane and experienced a “combat landing” in uncharted territory in northern Iraq. It was such a surreal feeling—the only light came from a red bulb—we sat shoulder to shoulder in silence. We were told to expect heavy artillery/chemical attacks. I can’t say I know what was on the minds of those men packed next to me, but I assume it was thoughts of family and religion. But me, a single 20 year old, I was thinking about what you had said. I joined the army as soon as I was eligible – turned down a writing scholarship to a state university, eager to serve my country, ready to die for the ideals I fell in love with. Two years later I found myself moments away from a landing onto a pitch black airstrip, ready to charge into a country I didn't believe I belonged in, with your words repeating in my head.

My time in Iraq has always involved finding things to convince myself that I can be proud of my actions; that I was a part of something just. But no matter what pro-war argument I came up with, I pictured my smirking commander-in-chief, thinking he was fooling a nation. I discovered that the result of the war and the actions of G.W. cannot be treated as the same issue. Bush accidentally did a good thing for the Iraqi people. After the fact he's starting to claim humanitarian intentions for going to war - obviously bullshit. But he realizes that that is the only positive outcome. I could explain what I've seen here; a people forced into poverty & ignorance – but I'll spare you. I try not to think about the ultimate future of this place. I'm sure we'll cause them to fall victim to Banana Republic and Joe Millionaire, with a puppet president and monopolized oil industry. But there will be plenty of time in the future to worry about those things.

I can't say I know what I believe. I am willing to accept that my opinions are a result of a given subconscious, not sufficient knowledge. Do I support care for the low income class because I truly understand the system, or because I've personified inadequacies and identified with those who experience struggle. Does a conservative oppose gay rights because he genuinely understands the issue or because he's scared to face deeper levels of humanity? What if you could be given a reason for everything you believe, but the reason is unrelated to the topic – the result of a life and a psyche? Will we believe those things the same way we used to? I call myself a liberal because I've been moved to tears by the words of Paul Wellstone, scenes in "The Awful Truth," the funeral of Matthew Sheppard, and the homeless people in the city I once lived in. It's not what I know, it's what I felt. It's dangerous to rely on emotions to guide your moral compass – but it’s the only way to be honest. I understand everything I believe may be wrong; that I believe for a reason, and that reason may not be reality. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. Maybe just that I can't look at this war politically. I can only look at it as an experience that has taught me that life is dictated by seconds and inches; one that has caused me to face death and loss and fear. And at its core, stripped of the WMD's and no-contest contracts, it's been about one thing: serving my country. The most difficult thing has been learning how to be proud of that. This country, I'm serving,…is it America? Has it ever been? It's always bothered me that, despite the American philosophy, it became NECESSARY for a civil right movement, it became NECESSARY to form the ACLU. I've simultaneously battled Saddam loyalists and these questions. Kind of an odd setting for suddenly doubting my patriotism. But while my fight with those trying to kill my friends & I is far from ending, the fight within myself has ended.

I found what I've been fighting for. It's been you, all along. I hated you on a plane ride in the dark with shaking hands. But you've been the roof of my loyalty, my bravery, and my dignity. Mr. Moore, you are America. This isn't a "I'm a hip liberal & I'll be cool if I get an autographed copy of Stupid White Men" letter. I've faced every weapon, from SCUDs to swords, and I've had to face why. And you've been the answer. I'm serving a country in which you live; where you're allowed to speak and PEOPLE LISTEN; where you're allowed to write and PEOPLE READ. What a beautiful country – every injustice has a prosecutor – every struggle has a defender. We are still a country being born. Compassion will never lose to conservatism…the country could be ruled by Jerry Falwell and Dick Cheney – but there will always be tears, as long as there is injustice and oppression and greed and hypocrisy. And there will always be you, the people you've taught, the lives you've influenced. You reminded me that America exists, and I suppose this letter is meant to thank you for that. I can't explain the pride you've instilled in me, and the comfort you've given me, to know that if I find myself fallen on the battlefield, I gave my life serving something I loved and truly believed in.

Sincerely,
Mike Prysner

Michael Moore has several more here .

I will never visit fuck face Michael Moores website.

Great source by the way.

:rolleyes:

What?
Would you prefer Peabody Award winning journalist, Bill O\'Reilly?