PFC Lynch received the Bronze Star medal - for what? Being captured? Wrecking a humvee? Fighting the enemy? Was there anything extraordinary? I think the Army gives away too many medals in the first place - they are used as awards for doing well in a competition. This is a slap in the face to everyone who won this medal in the past. I could see it if she managed to escape on her own. It seems that nothing is sacred anymore.

Can we all say Public Relations? I agree, the few details released about what actually happened dont suggest anyone did anything worth a bronze star, as a matter of fact, most of what was originally released about them fighting to the death etc etc was greatly exagerated. Its all a PR stunt, hate to say it, but it is. However, I'm not at all saying i dont respect her or her fellow soldiers for what they went through, i just dont believe she did anything worthy of a bronze star.

What about the Purple Heart and the other medal she won? For being at the wrong place at the wrong time?

Stone

I can only speak for myself but i think InfX708 was also only talking ab the Bronze Star....Purple Heart is awarded for wounds received in combat, well she was wounded in combat. POW medal is received basically for being a POW and she was a POW...So the only thing i was disussing is the Bronze Star she was awarded.

It seems you get a medal for farting in the US armed forces.

She was part of the biggest "wag the dog" setup in recent history, It was filmed, there was no combat, it appears the Iraqi's had allready fled. Giving her a bronze star for that is a slap in the face to all servicemen who earned it adn deserve it.....disgusting if you ask me.

We will see a lot more of her, She will become a recruitng poster, after Oprah and Montel is done with her. Then comes the movie deal and whamoo she is now living in Hollywood only talking through her agent.

Remember Scott O'Grady?. Now there is a person who deserved ALL the credit he got.

Yeah... It's total bullshit. She doesn't deserve a Bronze Star.

There has been nothing but bullshit regarding this girl's story. The media (especially The Washington Post) have printed all sorts of lies about her story. The Pentagon has also been super secretive regarding her. Even to the point of a coverup ... almost.

The truth is she never put up a fight at all. Maybe she was raped by the Iraqi's. They would never want that to come out. The feminists at the Pentagon would do everything in their power to keep that secret. It would harm their agenda.

It's all about appeasing the feminists and the "women in combat" issue. It's a shame and yes it does devalue and cheapen the Bronze Star when it is awarded to a soldier who never put up a fight simply because she is a female.

It's out of control PC madness. The public will be treated to more lies when they make movies about her. The whole thing is a web of lies to protect and advance an agenda. That's it......

Bang on Madman, But all wars are like this, One must not forget the Goatfuck that got them into this mess in the first place. Some numbskull took a worng turn adn ended up in a hot zone, People got killed and the Army needed a morale booster thus pumping this woman. Propaganda is a part of all wars, it is only a pity when it is done at other people's expense (i.e the real hero's)

Imagine you being stuck in the shit fight in Mogadishu back in the 90'ties (Black Hawk down) being awarded a Bronze Star for saving your comrades only to read a story like this?. I would send that medal back.....

Well put Claus.

All I have to see is she is cute and thats why it was done.

Some things to remember there everyone.

You can get two types of Bronze Stars: meritorious service and valor. The extra "V" device is added if awarded for valor.

Blanket issues of the Bronze Star are not unknown, actually. At the end of the WW II, large numbers of guys in the 101st Airborne, for example, were issued the Bronze Star so that their point totals would be upped, allowing them to be repatriated faster.

I don't think Lynch is being singled out here and I think that some of the criticism of her is a bit unwarranted. She's not the one awarding herself the medal. She is not the one that submitted the recommendation for the award or the general officer who approved it. 10 other soldiers from the 507th were awarded medals for that action.

http://www.southjerseynews.com/issues/july/m070303g.htm

Don’t criticize her as she is being used by both the military and our civilian leadership who feel the need to blow this out of proportion.

Not the first time nor will it be the last.

http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c363.htm

I had a company commander when I was in the 25th that was awarded the Silver Star for his actions on Grenada. Basically, he walked off the back of the airplane with the rest of his company as the fighting was practically over. He had the citation on his office wall. I would have not showed it out of guilt for not doing anything to earn it. Even the Infantry has it's duds.

No one has an issue with this woman, The issue of this discussion is the awarding of medals to individuals who perhaps not deserve them, used in a way to boost morale or create propaganda in times where the whole campaign is under pressure and the overall approval is in question.

The Bronze Medal is given for the following reason:

. The Bronze Star Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the Army of the United States after 6 December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, in connection with military operations against an armed enemy; or while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

c. Awards may be made for acts of heroism, performed under circumstances described above, which are of lesser degree than required for the award of the Silver Star.

She got hit by an RPG. She passed out and got captured. Heroic??????.

Not when you compare it to this :

[url=Night Stalkers]http://www.nightstalkers.com/tfranger/memorial/smith/smith3.html[/url]

No kidding. Where is the B.S. (as I prefer to call it now ) for the homely looking black woman or the other clowns that made the wrong turn and ended up captured? We shouldn't blame them though as it takes an officer to put them in for the medal... :rolleyes: Typical military dog and poney bullshit.

Just another split-tail soldier with a built in fox hole.

I think it is bullshit that she received the medal, but definately disagree with Stonecoldchavez about her being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Let's not forget that she did volunteer to be in the Army and she did go over to Iraq in the first place. She could have been a coward and went AWOL. That is not worthy of a medal, but it definately takes some courage.

Okay, you guys are totally wrong.

First off there are 2 bronze stars, with valor and without. PFC Lynch was awarded a bronze star without valor. Which basically amounts to a wartime meritorious service medal. The bronze star is given out for:

a. The Bronze Star Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the military of the United States after 6 December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

b. Awards may be made for acts of heroism, performed under circumstances described above, which are of lesser degree than required for the award of the Silver Star.

c. Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit or meritorious service. The required achievement or service while of lesser degree than that required for the award of the Legion of Merit must nevertheless have been meritorious and accomplished with distinction.

Seems to me, she fit the critera of C perfectly. Now if she had gotten the bronze star with valor she would have had to demonstrate some type of heroics. Which she didn't. She did however achieve a single act of merit/meritorious service (engaged in a firefight and fought hard).

Lets not take credit away from her. She did her duty, she did it well. It's a shame that some other guys who saw combat didn't get put up for a bronze star.

Now, I'm a military guy (currently serve on AD) and I have a good friend who was awarded a bronze star for serving in Afghanistan. He was the officer in charge of a 44 man team who saw combat. He never discharged his weapon, never killed an enemy, never got shot. However he did his job well in combat and none of his guys got killed (meritorious service). He was one the first U.S. troops on the ground and went in with Army Special Forces (he was AF Security Forces).

I have four and a half words for you folks...
Why weren't you there?
I seriously doubt I need to stand up for her or any other person in our military as their actions speak for themselves. If I do, then you have a serious lack of grasp about the military and the people that protect our asses every fucking day.
A marketing tool for the armed services? Sure.
A reason for you retards to bash her for it? Despicitable and embarassing.

Ok everybody who was sitting on their fucking couch through the war shut the fuck up. You bunch of ball licking chicken shit pansies. She was in a foreign country in the middle of a war. Through no fault of her own she ended up involved in a live fire exchange with the enemy. She was seriously wounded and was behind enemy lines as a POW. What the fuck have any of you pieces of shit done to give you the right to criticize her. I would wager that you would have all shit your pants and died in the same situation.

Dumbasses.

you and Bin300000 takes the Moron posts of the month. Again NO ONE is questioning her and her service to her country, We are talking about awarding of medals. I have actually learned a thing or 2 and so should you. Read the first page again slapnuts....

Her 5 other fellow servicemen were ALSO POW's they were beaten and behind enemy lines, where is their Air time where is their home coming parade, their Bronze Stars. I am trying to understand WHY she was awarded that medal for being wounded or for being a hero????,if you say hero then I say start making 400.000 other Bronze stars and call them campaign medals as I am sure there are soldiers earning it as I type this. She did nothing out of the ordinary to earn a recognition other being captured at no fault of her own. Compare it to Mogadishu, Peole got wounded and killed trying to save other people, that is the point, not who she is or where she was,

No one has more respect for the people in the shit over there, being shot at without knowing who is friend or foe. Having the feeling they are doing their duty as called for but seeing the very people they liberate shoot and kill your friends.

Please refer to my post. The bronze star she was awarded is given for MERITORIOUS SERVICE DURING WARTIME. That's it! She fit the bill. As a matter of fact, other members in her convoy got bronze stars as well. In fact, 1 got a Silver Star.

Then it fits our conversation, hence the title of the thread.....

Can you define Meritorius for me?

Deserving reward or praise; having merit.

Basically, a Meritorious Service Award is given out every three years for just serving your country well. Now, a Bronze Star is a Meritorious Medal given ONLY during engagements with enemy (wartime). So, the definition is basically doing your job and doing it well when egaged with the enemy. Then you are eligable for a Bronze Star (without Valor).

You guys have it all wrong. A Bronze Star with Valor is the money maker you don't see many of those. However, just about everyone I know that has EVER been in some type of live fire exchange with the enemy has a bronze star. Unless they totally fucked up or froze, ect. Do what you were trained to do when the bullets fly and you have the makings of a Bronze Star. That's basically it!

Just gave you a 5 rating for that one , now stop slacking off at work (I assume you must be working).

Nah, I'm home right now. Work Swings and Mids... had one hell of a night though. Damn military guys always beating their wives. It never ends.

I just wanted you guys to realize a Bronze Star isn't "that" special. What PFC Lynch did was definatly deserving of a Bronze Star (without valor). Like I said... I have yet to meet anyone who was in a live fire exchange with the enemy who did not have a bronze star.

What gets me are the guys who "supported" wartime ops and never held a rifle, let alone fired, let alone were never directly engaged with the enemy walking around with Bronze Stars. Yes, that does happen and IMO it is what gives certain medals a bad wrap.

I served in the Danish military for 6.5 years, Never got a medal from my country. Got shot at twice, I have 2 UN service medals and a South African Defence Force medal (for providing first aid to a car accident involving SA personnel). It seems like medals are awarded freely in the US forces understanding the background of awarding the medals helps. thanks again.

Yes, certain medals in the U.S. are awarded without much consideration. Mainly because the enlisted ranks get promotion points for medals. Over the years they have just gotten easier to get... Now officers on the other hand hardly get medals. Mainly because they do not get promotion points for them, so the need to have medals is not as high.

I'll give you a great example. I am an officer in the military and about 6 months ago I had several troops (with myself) who went above and beyond the call of duty. They ALL got medals for it. I didn't. :shrug: Not that I care because I'm not in it for the medals but my point is they need them to promote and over time, it has gotten easier.

Same goes for performance reports. Years ago a 5 rating (max) meant you were shit hot. Today, if you don't have a 5 rating and have a 4 you are considered a shit bag. God help you if you have a 3 rating (avg) you'd be getting booted out of the service. It's funny how things evolve.

Just to put this discussion into historical context, it brings to mind the old Bill Mauldin WWII cartoon (wish I could find a copy and post--maybe somebody else can) with raggedy Willie or Joe (never could tell them apart) telling an equally ragged corpsman "Just gimme a aspirin, I already got a Purple Heart."

Bronze stars are given too freely.

Remember these troops passed through the same location three times because they were lost. As a result the bad guys were able to set up an ambush. If they had been able to navigate and communitcate properly they likely would have arrived safely...and received no award...

Before anyone decides to send "You ain't BTDT" flames at me...Haiti, Somalia, Kosovo, OEF.

Sorry, I was busy with other things - like clearing Ba'ath Party buldings in Karbola.

No one in my company has one. We were ambushed by a command detonated artillery round this morning - 1 KIA, 7 wounded. The only medals that will come from that is Purple Hearts.

Out of curiosity . . .

How are you certain that no one in your company will receive the Bronze Star?

I have three purple hearts...never recieved a bronze or silver star. I never asked for them, never asked for the limp I will have for the rest of my life. But I am proud of that fact that I did serve my country for a number of years.

Alrighty then. I've been known to shoot first and then ask questions.
With the exception of InfX708, the rest of us don't know jack about what goes on there.
Hey InfX, any hot chicks at them bath parties?

Out of curiosity... when was the last time you saw a decoration awarded the day of an event? Secondly, I am guessing you are in the 101st Airborne? I am curious as to why and how you are posting from Iraq. It seems to me like a huge OPSEC violation to be telling this on an internet form. If your unit is in fact the 101st Airborne I bet my left nut you guys will be getting some serious awards when you return because of everything I have seen on the news. Awards take time and are hardly ever given while an event is still going on. I'll have to give my good friend (a LT in the 101st) a call when he gets back and see what shit he got into over there... I'm so jelous. Thirdly, I said "fire exchange" with the enemy, a firefight. Now, I don't know what happened but if they just got shwacked and ran away and didn't engage for a period of time then there is no grounds for an award like a bronze star. I am sorry for your units loss.

I just sent 3 of my Sgt's and 1 of my Airman to Baghdad today. Unfortunatly, officers don't get deployed as much as the enlisted in my career field. Believe me, I didn't sign up for the service to sit CONUS and not get in on the action.

As for other people saying they didn't get bronze stars or whatever. It is your commanding officers job to take care of his people. With an organization so big there is no way everything is going to be completely uniformed and FAIR! Life will never be fair, sorry. I get screwed out of my days off all the time because I work swings and mids and am required to attend operational meetings during the mornings... comes with the job. I personally take a vested interest in looking out for my troops and if they fit the bill for an award or medal then by all means I am going to make sure it gets written and pushed up the chain of command. I do not put people in for medals I don't think they were deserving of.

Just my .02

They might, but knowing the 'deuce, they most likely won't.

I wasn't there, I don't know if she earned it or not. I don't think that highly of the Bronze Star without V device anyway. It's like getting an MSM during war time. Nice, but not a "hero" medal. Who knows, I may get one for finding flat bed trucks on two occasions when no one else could get them. I don't think hero unless it has that V. Then I want to hear the story over a beer. To be honest, people already make fun of me when I wear my Class "A"s. I'd prefer to leave here without anything new. Hopefully, they'll just have us old guys add stars to our SWA. I saw PFC Lynch for a few minutes while we waited for her plane to Germany. She seemed very nice, very modest and very tough. According to the stories I've read in newspapers, she continues to be all those things. She is an American soldier. I'm proud to be one with her.

Bronze stars where given out to almost every officer in the 101st during the Gulf war. "EVERY" officer in the 2/502 was awarded one just for showing up. I know this for a fact I handed them out.

Figures... I can truely speak (as a young officer) as a member of the armed forces. Medals mean jack to me. If I so happen to get one, I wear it. Other than that I am only concerned with my troops and always presenting the proper military image. I iron my BDU's everyday, shine the boots, ect. All beacause it is my duty as their OIC to always present a sharp professional image. I am also right there when they are doing the not so popular jobs. I would never ask one of my troops to do something I would not do myself. During PT I make it a point to always finish first in the runs, do more push-ups, ect. to always present the leadership example.

Again, just my .02!

You sound like a good officer. Leading by example is always the way to gain respect from your troops. Joining in on a shit job and helping them out makes you part of the team and your guys will go the extra mile for you.

I used to hate the officers that would lead only in the runs/PT and drop the ball in everything else (more than one got peered out of our units...). I thought for a while that the only thing taught in OCS was how to be arrogant and of course *running*

unrelated:

My earlier comments were made largely in jest. I served several years on active duty and it must have warped my sensibilities. I think it's great that she made it back, but I also see it as PR and a medal awarded for getting lost...I just consider myself fortunate that none of the bonehead things I did earned me medals The awards I got that were important to me were always the ones that we all got as a unit--those are the ones that count. I think that most soldiers would be tolerant of my comments knowing that I served in that theater along with many others. I am sorry if I offended any that haven't served

to add some perspective (good or bad perspective is your decision)...

1. Someone asked about the "homely" black woman. She was in that convoy due to the fact that she missed movement in an earlier convoy. If you are or have been in the military, you know this is not good.

2. Here is an example of how awards have become easier.
SIT 1
-The first time I went to Somalia I was a PV2. I had just been through combat lifetaker, and was the "senior" medic on the ground when we came up on a Somali who had been shot in the back. He was shot by an SKS 26 hrs prior. I stabilized him, called in a medevac, and monitored/carried him to a pickup zone. Our actions in no doubt saved his life. I was put in for an ARCOM, and was made to explain to the Bn Cdr why I deserved an ARCOM. In the end it was downgraded to an AAM. That was in early 1993.

SIT 2
-Daily, I see awards to soldiers of AAMs, and ARCOMs for
...completing a 7 day field problem
...winning a Bn soldier board, 1 of 2 competing
...completing a CIP with the fewest gigs(I didn't say no gigs)
...other seemingly everyday things

These are not exceptions, but are the norm.

Food for thought

I'll add some more perspective to what Xtracurricular just said...

For the Navy it has become common to give out a set number of awards for each deployment. For example, let's says a ship fo 500 men gets 10 Navy Commendation Medals and 40 Navy Achievement Medals. The Battle Group Commander's and CO's love to present the awards right before returning home so that the sailors are wearing their new medals when the ship pulls in on day 180....probably a good notion...

BUT! Add in the classic bureaucracy (read: time lapse) with awarding medals and the junior officers and chiefs find themselves writing awards for events that have not even happened!

...So they write, "Fireman Timmy defecated tiffany cufflinks while running backwards at full speed during Operation JOINT HANDJOB OCT-NOV '03. Unlike other Fireman, Timmy's cufflinks were also presented in a decorative wrapping. His performance is clearly in accordance with the highest naval tradtions..."

...in August before the exercise even happens.

There was a long letter to the editor of the Navy Times written by a chief who put in a sailor for an award who had not yet reported aboard the ship. Naturally, the command denied it arguing that the kid was not even onboard yet. The chief argued that he knew the kid from a previous command and that he was a better sailor than the others in the division...clearly he would perform in such a manner during the upcoming exercise (of which he would be aboard for) that he would deserve the award!

Medals have become watered down as a result of all the stuff written on this post. IT reminds me of a story that I heard about a reunion of 101st (Army guys forgive me if I get this one wrong) ....as the tale goes a young 101 trooper proudly addresses an older guy with a pot-belly.

"I have five hundred jumps."
"Wow, that's impressive," says the older gent.
"Uh, how many do you have?"
"Well, after my first five qualifying jumps, only two."
(Sheepishly) "Oh."
"Yeah, D-Day and Market Garden."

That gave me goose bumps. We watched the entire series of Band of Brothers last week. I have the set at home, but never noticed the spades on their helmets until I watched it here. See, every unit in the 101st - well, the infantry regiments - had a different suit on their helmets in WWII. The 502nd has hearts and the 327th has clubs - which aren't very visible. Can't remember who the other unit was - wanting to say the 501st. Just in case you all were wondering who those guys with hearts on their kevlars were.

Sweet....

I love 5 jump chumps...

I die everytime I see an "office" person wearing the Airborne Function Badge. When was the last time you saw a protocol officer jump into combat? How about a personnel officer... this shit cracks me up.

More on Lynch: IT seems that she was injured in the initial ambush, transfered to a humvee and when the humvee ran into the back of the 5-ton in front of it, was knocked out and later awoke in the hospital. So when exactly did she have time to fire all her rounds? We had a corp LRRS unit get ambushed the other day. These are infantry soldiers, most of whom have Ranger tabs - one with a scroll for a combat patch. They only managed to fire a few rounds between them - and none of them were injured to much extent. She got the Bronze Star for surviving an ambush and subsequent hospitalization.
We have a guy leaving who was made a team leader the same day we got hit. He became the squad leader during that incident as his SL was a casualty. He performed the job well - all he's leaving with is the typical ETS medals - Army Commendation medal and Army Achievement Medal.

Thats why they have things like the gold star(on wings) to acknowledge those that have jumbed in combat. I hear what you are saying but I would not fault the office person for wearing wings. They were told, or volunteered, to go to Airborne school, after sucessful completion of the course they were awarded wings, why should'nt they wear them?

In fairness to Pvt. Lynch, until we know for certain what happened or what her conduct was, I have to give her the benefit of the doubt.

That's not an easy choice. During my early 90's service in a Naval Reserve unit, I found the previous post describing delivery of the Tiffany cufflinks ( BTW) to be right on. A rating of 4.0 (theoretically perfect) has become the expected norm, so anything less than the highest praise is a black mark on your record, rendering the whole system meaningless. One officer observed that medals have become much more about "been there" than "done that."

And when the cruiser Vincennes mistakenly shot down an Iran Air A300 on July 3, 1988, the Navy gave out medals for shooting down a civilian airliner with 290 innocent people aboard. (Note - please research the event and get the facts straight before replying with any suggestion that the shootdown was justified. If your view is that it was ok because the people onboard were Middle Eastern, do us all a favor and keep it to yourself).

My father fought with the 77th Infantry Division in the Philippines and at Guam and Okinawa. He was awarded the Bronze Star with V twice and was humbled by it, saying that almost every guy there did something heroic at one point or another.

All in all, it seems clear that today, PR and public perception are far bigger drivers than they should be in determining who is decorated for what...and that blows.