If that's the case, I misunderstood your post. With your inference to "Sean Clone", I thought you were saying I ignorded posts.

My bad.

That is exactly what I was saying. You both tried to claim victory while not responding to all the arguments.

You said "THE" Militant Arabs like thats all there was, sure I guess you could argue that you only meant the few who fight but your wording inferred something different. Bush does the same thing, infers something but stays vague enough to deny the impression people got later on.
If you are refering to ONLY the militant arabs then you're missing my important distinction that there ARE Palestinians that want peace!

I understand the historical reasons for the hatred between the two groups, actually the Arab vs. Jew vs. Christianity conflicts have gone on alot longer than 80 years. The most recent round of hatered started 80 years ago and is reaching a boiling point now.

What I'm saying is we need to stop them from fighting and show them that what they're doing is wrong. Your implication that since the Palestinians have sheltered this hatred for 80 years and they need to be punished by letting the Israelis roll over them in ethically wrong.


No you didn't see any of them, the american media showed you two. The thing is there aren't many Muslims in America and those that there are are already persicuted into silence by americans who blame Muslims in general for terrorism in the world. That's why I'm saying ask around yourself and see how many Muslims condone terrorism. You'd be lucky to find many, and the ones you do are the extremeists and the people the extremeists have brainwashed.

I had the good fortune to actually talk to a few Muslims, foreign Muslims at that, and when we mentioned the World Trade Center Attacks they bowed their heads and offered their condolences.
This from people who live in crumbleing huts in the middle of a war who were going to live like kings off the food and clean water we were giving them, and they were still sorry for the pain WE had suffered.

This is where your ignorance on the Islamic Religion REALLY shows through. While Muslims do have a history of violence, the majority of believers were convereted peacefully. Plus almost all religions have a history of violence, didn't you ever hear of the crusades? And how many wars have been declared in the name of God?

Try actually learning what Islam is before you start to make judgements like that. I recomend the book "Islam- Faith,Culture,History" by Paul Lunde. You'd learn that Mumammad was persicuted and ran out of Mecca, then attacked after converting Medina, before returning to conquor Mecca. But when he arrived at Mecca a peace treaty was signed.

Also Islam faith is built on five pillars:

-The Profession of Faith; there is only one god and Muhammad is his messenger.

-Prayer; Five Daily

-Alms; Charity, a fundamental to Islam

-Fasting; Sunrise to Sunset during Ramadan (I learned that this is actually much more festive that I thought it would be. In Camp Doha after the sun set all the Muslims ate drank and joked around like it was a party.)

-Pilgrimage; Visit Mecca at least once in your lifetime.

-Jihad is NOT one of the pillars, only the extremists consider it to be one. Jihad means "Stuggle,exertion" and there are two kinds "Greater" and "Lesser". "Greater Jihad" is the struggle against evil that Muslims face in everyday lives. "Lesser Jihad" is a "Legal War" which must legally be declared by the Caliph (successor to the Prophet, equivalent of the Pope to Catholics). The enemy has to be unbelievers whose terrirtory borders Islamic territory. Before the opening of hostilities the enemy must be given the chance to convert, if they do they join the believers, if not then they can be conquored by force. POW's become property of the leader. Movable property is divided between the warriors after one fifth is set aside for the poor. Women and Children must not be harmed. Trees or Herds must not be destroyed so pesants don't loose thier livelihood. And "People of the Book" (christians, Jews, or any other religion with scriptures) have a privilidged status and are free to practice their religion.

After learing all that you can see why most all Muslim believers belive that all terrorist attacks are against Islamic Principals and all attackers are going straight to hell. Osama's war isn't even a true Jihad because the person declaring it is some nobody with a bunch of money who wants to declare war on a distant land and murder innocents.

I know there are Palestinians that want peace. I just don't believe they are an overwhelming majority like you seem to think. I am talking about the Palestinians specifically not all Arabs.

I understand your point, I just wanted to point out the origin of the current problems.

Again, when did I say the Israelis should be allowed to roll over them. I simply stated that Arafat is a rejectionist, and a terrorist. He has had chance after chance for peace and has always gie it lip service. Unfortunatey that is all it has ever been is lip service.

I think the persecution angle is a bit ridiculous to say the least. As a rule America is not persecuting it's Muslim residents at all. That is just hyperbolic BS. Show me another religion that is committing terrorist acts around the world. Look I don't hate Muslims. I have worked with them, and actually discuss these issues with them almost every day. One of the guys is Egyptian and the other guy is from Iran. They own the neighborhood store I go into every day. Your claim that there aren't many Muslims in America is pretty ridiculous as well.

Good. All the ones I have talked to have told me the same thing. You are making this to broad. The Palestinians are the issue really. Remember them dancing in the streets? How about the polls?

That is all well and good my friend. The real problem with Islam is the Wahabi sect of the religion, which seems to be pretty closely related to the Sunni sect. The wahabists do hate us generally. They are the ones that create monsters like UBL. The Sunnis are generally rejectionists as well. They don't believe Israel has a right to exist for the most part.

While this discussion is interesting, it is besides the point of this post really. I am not some redneck that thinks that we should just 'Nuke 'em all, and let Allah sort 'em out!'. That is just ignorant. I know most Arabs are not like the terrorists. I also know that a whole shitload of Arabs are continuously fed a line of bullshit.

I do think that our support of Israel is the right thing to do. I also think the Arab nations, for the most part, all want Israel to dissapear. The entire world hates this tiny country, and the hate is generally based on lies and half-truths that continue to be spread through the universities of the world. People are given a highly slanted side of the story, which conveniently leaves out most of the truth.

Again, everyone please check out the link I posted. It is a Muslim site that actually tells the truth about the triangle of evil known as UBL, Saddam Hussein, and Yasser Arafat.

Arafat is still alive...... because WE choose to keep him alive. For the betterment of us all. As soon as the US gives the greenlight to kill him 10 million Arabs will overrun Israel (once they kill him) and WWIII will break out. Plain and simple.

Arafat is about as useful as tits on a bull; he is the puppet for Hamas.

I am no big fan of the Palestinians, but the Israelis are no angels in this problem either.

Stone

WTF are you talking about? Last time Israel faced the "Islamic World" the "Islamic World" got their asses kicked in six friggin days man! Get your facts together dude. We have been trying to prevent Israel from unleashing hell on earth if they were to be attacked again. Let me ask you this, What do you think Israel would have done if a 911 type attack happened on their soil? Even your buddy Osama hasn't the balls to do something like that. A true man of conviction would have attacked Israel. After all, his so called goal of 911 was his contempt for our support of Israel. Right? That's what he said in the videos remember? If Osama would have done that, the fight would have been over much more quickly at a much more devastating cost.

Fact is my friend, the islamic extremist would slit your christian throat and dance in celebration while you bled to death. They especially HATE people like YOU! No matter how much you try to embrace them and their increasingly more screwed up philosophy.

Have your interpreter buddy explain that more clearly for you.

OWNED

P.S...I don't dislike a man due to his faith. If you want to be islamic or buddist or worship UFO's that's the business of that person. Being American means all types of people, from all walks of life living together in harmony. I admit, it hasn't always been that way, but I think it's getting better. It just takes time for some to break old bad habits.

I believe the extremists hate any type of authority they can't control. They don't want secular governments to give the power to the people. If they did, they would instantly become a minority. I think the majority of muslims really want some kind of peace...I think some of them may even feel Arafat has no desire to see them live in peace. On the otherhand, Israel needs to give the occupied territories back to the Palestinians once they demonstrate they have a real desire to have peace. Israel needs to quit creating settlements when they say they are going to. And on the part of Palestine, they need the good people to raise up and realize that the extremist factions are oiling the jaws of the war machine with the blood of their children. Where is the glory in that? When will they realize that?

This is good stuff man. I'm happy to see some Xterra drivers are intelligent, articulate, able to express their convictions thoughtfully, and with emotion.
Come on man; unless you're out burning your neighbors cat for fun, robbing old ladies for your next hit of dope or unfortunately anything more sinister, you're a GOOD person. It doesn't matter if you pray to an 8 armed flying monkey.( Well it DOES if you've read the 10 commandments...) Christianity, Buddihsm, Catholicism, Islam, and even Judaism are today all products of mans desire to profit. Organized religion is mans creation, not Our Creator's. I write "our Creator" because that's my point. We're all praying to the same G-D. The G-D of good and right, of peace and happiness. When Shit like Osama happens, it's one mans misguided,(very misguided) interpretation of a well meant message. We are supposed to live together here and work towards the same common goal; Free pizza fridays.

Peace loving Muslims, and Americans, and Peace Hating Americans

After today's Palestinian stunt, Israel should just go in and crush each and every one of them. Sorry Midnight. I now there are lots of good Palestinians. But you know what...they aren't doing squat.

This attack is totally unjustified. Not like any of the previous ones were either. They should be nuked. Period.

I don't know if nuking them would be the answer..

I don't understand why the media doesn't make as big an issue of a suicide bomber killing dozens of innocent people, as they do the Israeli army killing one Hamas or Hezbollah thug.

At least you know the Israeli's are coming.

Another example of the double standard.

There are millions of Muslims in America. At least nine million and the number is increasing rapidly. Many are involved in Jihad activity. This is the latest from Cincinnati. This shit is going on all over the country. A practicing Muslim is always a Muslim first and an American last. This is what is going on in America today.

Two Mosques a short drive from my house have been implicated directly in terrorism. One on Atlantic Ave. in Brooklyn has funneled millions of dollars to terrorists. Another In Jersey City is where the WTC 1993 attacks were planned. I'm sure there is still stuff going on there considering Jersey City's large Arab population was out on rooftops and streets cheering the Sept. 11 attacks after they occurred.

A little reality and less criticism of your fellow citizens and soldiers on your part is definitely in order here. You have been totally brainwashed by the PC and multiculturalist bullshit in our society. And please... don't post any crap that you were in Iraq. I know that. Your blog diary said it all.

I love how sheltered and priveledged "white boys" today have such a twisted view on reality.

Isn't it so darn funny that top US govt officials can get away with everything just by saying we didn't know about it?
Oh yeah, love the fact that Clinton was involved in this plot. Good theory, stupid idea.

Granted, this is bad, but why are you so gleeful about it? Clinton probably didn't even know about it.

Hey, I'm just using your argument against you.

When we bring up the 9/11 FBI memo from Minneapolis, you all go "BUSH DIDN'T KNOW!!"

There is no glee from me, in fact, I understand what they were trying to do, ill-concieved or poorly planned as it was. I have no problem with the administration saying they knew nothing about it. I am sure there are many in any administration who feel that the President should be isolated from certain controversial operations or decisions to save him from liabilty should said operation go bad. I am not saying it is right or wrong, regardless of who is in charge. And since only CJ and myself responded to the original link, i didnt see much "glee" at all. It seems you are a bit sensitive lately. You been getting enough sleep? Your girlfriend giving you problems? Work ok? i hope so, but remember, we are here for you if you want to talk.

Good. Israel should be allowed to attack any state that supports those that want to kill it's citizens. I wouldn't mind them kicking the shit out of Syria. That would be one less terrorist state whose ass we have to kick in the future. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are going to be responsible for destabilizing the entire region through their idiotic tactics. Don't they realize Sharon is done with the bullshit? He isn't going to fuck around anymore.