This was originally started in the Which steering kit? thread in the Parts and Accessories forum
Granted I don't post a lot on this site, at least not as much as I used to, but I do lurk and read the pertant pages when I can get a chance.

Based on the statement posted by Admin I have questions:

What exactly does a Company get when they pay for supporting a site?

It seems from the quoted post that the company gets to provide inforamtion about their product and sell it directly on the site. Is that Correct?

Therefor a company that does not support the site cannot post information or sell directly on the site.

What if someone asks a specific question regarding EOE's sliders from back in the 00-01 days? Looking for specific comments on design, pro's and con's? Are members not to discuss the sliders because it provides information about a product from a vendor that is not a supporting vendor of the site?

And what about the situation along the lines of a member who is not a company or vendor or pays to support the site like a vendor does? (Going under the assumption that being a supporting member does not equal what a Vendor pays to support the site - please correct me if I am in error on that point) What if they create and sell a modification that is useful to Xterra owners but which the Majority of Xterra owners are unable to create or do themselves?

Example - ElectroKen's Rear wiper delay module...
Created from a complaint about the rear wiper in this thread...
mentioned in this thread,
promoted in this thread
Please note that I personally think these threads are fine, and that no action take place either to these threads, the posts within them, or to Electroken. I'm a huge fan of Elevtroken, and have used his Fog Light Mod in which he poste the directions for free on the site - a member helping a member. (An X owner helping an X owner) I am only using this as an example because I am playing devil's advocate - thinking like a company who has paid to support the site and then read the quoted post from above.

Those threads are not removed, and I'd assume that Electroken hasn't paid to support the site (unless my assumption from before is incorrect). So that would tell me that is not a violation of the policy set forth in Admin's post.

But do those threads in this instance not constitute a violation of the posted policy? The owner (ElctroKen) could be considered a retailer/vendor, even though he isn't a company. ElectroKen does give out something no one else offers for the Xterra, and it's not as if it's free (it costs $15), nor like he offered up the blueprint for the mod for anyone to go out and hire Joe Schmoe to make it for them. That seems like a member selling an item that another member benefits from. Or like a vendor selling a product to a customer through the site.

And wouldn't any further mention of the rear wiper dealy module be a violation of the Supporting Vendors policy, based on what was posted by Admin?

I guess I'm wondering where the line is drawn between a member who is providing a good or service through the site and a vendor providing a good or service through the site...

I mean, vendors that don't support the site don't have advertisements and written reviews on the XOC site, do they?
Does becoming a supporting company mean a monopoly on information to the members of the board?
And if so, why hasn't electroken's Wiper Delay Module references and threads been removed from the boards?

Coolerman , The Thormod and ElectroKen's mods are all being sold, yes. But generally they are small fixes that although they may or may not be making a couple of bucks on, it is not the business they are in. Generally they are offering a fix as a service so it has been allowed to slide.

Kind of a no harm no foul situation since they really aren't competiting with vendors who are paying for advertising and supporting the site.

What you said about members discussing mods is true. People are free to discuss lift kits, steering systems , bumpers ect. as it applies to their use and recomendations. Where it gets a little sticky is when people who clearly have a relationship with a vendor (Editor with TC and Myself with SLR) go over and beyond recomendations and first person reports of product and start taking the role of salesperson for that particular vendor.

The Admin (Carlton) does not wish to allow members here to act as agents for vendors who have not chosen to support (advertise) on XOC.

• Introduction of new products
• Pricing for new and existing products
• Answering questions that should be posed to the vendor themselves.
• Posting pictures of products for the vendor

I think you get the idea.
It is very resonable to expect that the vendors that chose to advertise have the value of their support and advertising dollar preserved by limiting the amount of selling that is to be done by members with an association to competing vendors who are not supporting this site.

Ok, I see how that makes sense.

Another question (in addition to those not answered yet)- when does a fix for a problem become large rather than small and warrent being deleted?

When the solution is readily avilable from a vendor that is supporting the site (Advertising) and the information posted about a non advertiser goes beyond simple information and starts looking like a sales pitch.

Subject to Administrators discression of course.

As Ian used to say, "this is not a democracy."

Keep in mind to that I have had numerous discussions with Carlton regarding this subject due to my association with SLR and sincerely agree with his position.

So 1st part:
I guess this answer still goes back to defining the difference between a vendor and a member who is making something for the Xterra.
If a member creates something (Thor Mod) and all of a supporting Vendor decides to market something similar but not exactly the same - does that now mean the solution is no longer small and now warrents being deleted?

I understand the administrators discretion, but that grey area of not knowing what the administrator is going to find as violating the vendor/adverstising policy of XOC could make members hesitant to post if a fix for a problem is found that a vendor could then supply themselves, like Todd (EOE) would be for his sliders. Afterall, he was just an X owner who made sliders for his and others before he became a company.

I'm just looking for some clarifications.

Hmmm...

It might just be the barley and hops talking, but I may have a solution:

What if we had a "marketplace" forum section for these "non-supporting-XOC" vendors? I have Electroken's wiper mod, the Thor mod, and a couple others, all of which I found through XOC. I'd love to see others develop parts/accessories for the Xterra community, and be able to post these parts on XOC.

The forum could be similar to the "Buy/Sell" forum, in that it could be read-only to visitors (meaning, no responses allowed, but you could PM the original poster).

In addition, you could limit posting priviledges in the forum so that only approved people are allowed to start new threads.

You could grandfather in people like Electroken and Coolerman.

All new products would either have to be sent to the Admin free of charge, or the intended seller would have to demonstrate why their product is worth consideration.

And of course, a hefty disclaimer to tell people, "These parts aren't endorsed by XOC, they might void your warranty, kill your cat, max your credit card" blah blah blah....

Just a thought.

Back to beer.

socalpunX explained it fairly well (we have had a few converstaions about it)

To answer your question more completely about the differance between a vendor and a member.

A vendor would be someone who works for or runs a business that sells products and makes a living from selling those products (Shrockworks, Courtesty Parts/Xterra Parts, Tire Rack, Calmini, SLR, AC, BP etc...). A member is the average Joe that owns an Xterra and came up with some cool idea but does not make their living selling the idea (Thor mod, Coolkits).

As for EOE. I know Todd and he is grandfathered in. He has been around from the start and as such gets special treatment.

If you are not sure then ASK!!! I am sure it will come to someones attention.

Ok, I think I got it. I just wanted to be clear about the policy so I didn't cross any boundries.

whatcha planning on making?